LS1LT1 Forum banner
1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello Everyone.

My name is Seth, I have had an account on here for awhile and use to be on here before making an account since I usually only read on forums, not post often.
I have searched on here for a way to relocate the LT1 oil pump/pickup but was only able to find tutorials for a dry sump setup which is more than I want to do.

Here is my situation, I am swapping my 1996 LT1 out of a Corvette into one of my other cars. (Import if you all want to yell at me). The issue comes to the oil pan. The engine fits perfect with my transmission (T56) but only when the oilpan is not on the block. The oil pan itself is too large and the room to expand is in the front but the rear has to go closer to the block.
Here is an example of how I made and need my oil pan:


The front is where I need the pickup. Not a difficult task but the real issue is the size of the oil pump in the rear. It sits too low and I am unable to find a way to relocate it or shorten the pump.

I was hoping someone may have an idea that will work.
Here is the ideas I have come up with and the reasons why they will not work according to research.

1) Dry sump stage 1 pump with the inlet line hooked up to the welded in oil pickup on the front and the output side of the pump to a AN fitting to a hose that will go to the back of the oil pan, and bolt into an adapter made to go over the oil pumps bolt on section (Basically pushing the oil into where the oil pump pushes oil).

Reason it wont work: The dry sump pumps will basically create too much pressure causing rings and seals to blow. They are normally putting pressure downwards an into an open area instead of a tight spot and upwards. If there was a way to bring the pressure down little more than half, than it may work but then there is also the price of $800. Worth it in my opinion but still a con.


2) Power steering pump instead of the dry sump pump.
Now this would seem like a silly stupid idea but if you think about it a little more, it is one of those (maybe it could work) possibilities. Oil is thicker than power steering fluid so you would have to bore the PS pump a bit to allow it to push the oil in.

Issue:
No high enough volume and possibly not enough pressure. Simple issue.



Now a lot of people tell me to cut the steering frame and move the rack more but the issue is that I am not able to cut the frame or modify the frame at all. Moving the rack forward was the most I could do which it is moved all the way forward. The reason I cannot modify the frame is because this car is being built for competition and one of the rules is that you cannot modify the frame.

Hope to try and keep this thread clean and I will do my best to contentiously check it when I have time and answer any questions about my stupidity you may have.

Hopefully someone can help me out with my project so I can get this up and running.

Thank you for your time and sorry for the long post. :LS1LT1flag:
 

·
Global Moderator
Joined
·
13,700 Posts
here's another crazy idea for you. How about a high pressure, in tank type fuel injection fuel pump. I've never tried it, but at about 60 psi, it would have enough pressure. Don't know if it will pump oil, but if you can find an old working fuel pump, you can test it.

You would have to fabricate a fitting that goes into the block where the original oil pump went. Also you would have to fabricate the pick up tube for the pump.

But pump could lie on bottom of oil pan, with hold down, and be submerged in oil as they are made to be submerged in gas.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
here's another crazy idea for you. How about a high pressure, in tank type fuel injection fuel pump. I've never tried it, but at about 60 psi, it would have enough pressure. Don't know if it will pump oil, but if you can find an old working fuel pump, you can test it.

You would have to fabricate a fitting that goes into the block where the original oil pump went. Also you would have to fabricate the pick up tube for the pump.

But pump could lie on bottom of oil pan, with hold down, and be submerged in oil as they are made to be submerged in gas.
Didnt even think about a fuel pump. I will do some research about that and see. I am currently in the process of making an adapter of where the oil pump was so I can use a fitting and if I wanted to take the engine out and sell it, I can still put the old pump back on since it isnt modifying the block. Appreciate the idea and will look into it to see if it works.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
807 Posts
I have never seen or heard of using an electric pump as an oil pump. Can the electric pump withstand the temperatures,sometimes oil runs up to 250 degrees f. What about the oil will it damage or degrade any of the fuel pump components. Lets say you are driving along the highway and
your elect pump stops working for some reason, you better be quick with turning the motor off. Also what about in the winter cold oil,much harder to pump ,the more I think about this idea the worse it sounds!!! ed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The heat is one issue about the pump and is hard to test. I have hooked up a sensor that reads the oil pressure and if it goes below a certain amount, it will shut off the car. Just to be safe for this stuff so I wont destroy the engine so quickly. The fuel pump wasn't able to keep the volume up to work and the power steering didnt keep the pressure going at a constant pressure. Still working on a solution for my issue. We are looking into maybe a way to raise the bottom of the pan and shorten the rear sump a bit to make it fit the opposite way but hoping that if we do this, it wont spin a bearing as I head it is easy to do with these engines.
Never really had a hard time making my own oil pan but seems these have to be done with certain specs to work properly which is weird. Ill keep everyone updated once I find a way or have any crazy ideas. Appreciate the support.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Since you are looking at ideas, did you ever think about a dry sump system.From what I know about them the oil pans can be very small,I believe most of the oil is held in an auxillary tank. ed
It was considered and I think I put it in the OP but the issue with dry sump is the expense and work since you have to take apart the engine and I just finished doing a rebuild on it, I do not want to go dry sump. Though it would be fine with me if it was abour $300 for the dry sump but it will never be.

Appreciate it though.

This is kind of the idea of the last oil pump piece. The sump will be in the same area and if it fits, should be able to use the stock Oil pickup. Just the pan will be shorter and the sump will go in slightly more.




So basically like this one but the sump will be smaller since the steering rack and cross member go back pretty far.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
915 Posts
This is really a crazy idea but thought I would throw it out there. What about using the oil pan from a V8 S10 4x4 swap similar to the one in the link. I did a V8 S10 4x4 swap and the thing I noticed on the oil pan was the sump was very narrow so that it would clear the front differential. It was also skinnier from the front back. Just thought I'd throw it out there, I'm sure they could give you dimensions on it. Or at least be one that could be slightly modified if neccesary.

http://www.carshopinc.com/product_i...2245/16-100T?gclid=COvbwbeH37YCFZBcMgodA2wAfw
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
I know the older chevy 11 had a similar issue . They have a special pan that has a notch for the steering and front cross member . But I know the pans are different for that year . If that set up works ... Maybe see about swapping pan rails ?? Just tossing that out as well . Might be a route to try .
Don
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The issue with both of those ideas is that the oil pan is still too low. The notch isnt big enough to fit the rack since the engine has to go so low.

We ended up flipping the pickup tube backwards and make the sump larger near the transmission and lifting the floor of the pan everywhere else. Extremely tight fit but the engine mounts are solid so it should work alright, still working on getting everything welded and setup. Pictures after if I remember to take them.

Thank you everyone.

All I need to do now is find a new power steering pump :/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,070 Posts
I seriously doubt that a PS pump would have anywhere near enough volume to feed a small block Chevy. I certainly wouldn't try it...! It sounds to me like a full dry sump system would be the only reliable solution.

Dry sump systems are designed to scavenge the oil from the pan (thereby drying the sump...) and pump it into a reservoir that, in turn, gravity feeds the pressure side of the pump. Most dry sump pump setups have 2 or 3 scavenge stages and 1 pressure stage all in one unit. A properly setup dry sump will not have any more pressure than a properly setup wet sump, so I'm not sure of the pressure concerns you mentioned in your original post.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I seriously doubt that a PS pump would have anywhere near enough volume to feed a small block Chevy. I certainly wouldn't try it...! It sounds to me like a full dry sump system would be the only reliable solution.

Dry sump systems are designed to scavenge the oil from the pan (thereby drying the sump...) and pump it into a reservoir that, in turn, gravity feeds the pressure side of the pump. Most dry sump pump setups have 2 or 3 scavenge stages and 1 pressure stage all in one unit. A properly setup dry sump will not have any more pressure than a properly setup wet sump, so I'm not sure of the pressure concerns you mentioned in your original post.
The concerns are more of that a dry sump setup would require having to take apart the engine etc for a proper dry sump setup instead of just putting a fitting to where the old pump goes and using a dry sump pan.
Also the cost of the dry sump setup is far more than what needs to be spent as I could purchase an LS for the same price of most kits (though rare to find a kit in the first place)

If you have a recommendation on a setup that would work with just putting a fitting on the old pump spot so the engine doesnt have to be torn apart again and can be for a fair price, I will gladly consider it.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top