[dementedjoker]

Got a question guys. I want to stay with an lt1 even though everyone says go ls1. But there aren't too many 93-97 clean cars out there so I want to be unique. What would be y'all's estimate price wise for around 500, and pipe dream of 550-600 rwhp. I'm thinking 383 stroker, forged internals, and supercharged maybe turbo. I'm hoping to get away with a price range of around 10k on the major components and motor build up. Also how street able is it? Doing a 6 speed swap so I will have better throttle and takeoff control. Sorry for the long thread but I would like to know if anyone knows anybody in the central Arkansas area that would like to join me in my indever. Especially if they are more knowledgable about f bodies. Thanks ahead of time for the help

 

[steveo]

10k wont do a proper stroker lt1 with forced induction that will survive 500hp+, i'm afraid. you should budget more like 20-25k.

think 10k for a built h/c stroker that'll handle the boost, 10k for the forced induction setup including fuel system upgrades, and at least another 5k for the other supporting mods so your car doesn't snap in half, and so you can put some of that power to the ground.

that might leave you enough for stuff so the NHRA will actually let you RACE this thing, if you budget it properly

on the flip side, you can get 500hp+ n/a on a 383 lt1 no problem with a 10k budget, but you will have to rev the piss out of it, which takes some serious doing. this is not just because a long stroke pushrod engine tends to get really stressed out at high rpms, but also that the LT1 pcm tables stop at 7000 rpm, and the opti tends to fly apart at high rpm (the MSD one will handle it, though)

also, as far as the trans goes, you have it backwards, launch control with a ton of power is MUCH easier with an auto. you should also have a trans brake at that level of power. i would tend to draw a 'line in the sand' for a strip car with a stick around 450hp, but it's up to you.. a built auto with a high stall converter would be more ideal.

just my 2 or 3 cents..

 

[dementedjoker]

Ok the stuff that I have researched isn't saying ill reach 500+ with just a stroker. Unless a lot of people are just hating on the lt1 all the stuff I've read is its only possible to get 500+ on a F/I system. What are we looking at with a 500+ n/a? I would rather have a n/a anyways. Sorry about the long paragraphs here. My first time really doing a performance build that's goes this in depth instead of just bolt on's. that's why I wish someone lived around here that knows this stuff that could help out. watch me build and jack up my motor while they drink beer and laugh at me lol.

 

[steveo]

to create large amounts of power with a smaller displacement n/a engine, you just have to move a ton of air. with 383ci displacement, that means you are going to have to rev it to the sky. as such your powerband will become very narrow and it will be fairly unstreetable

personally i'd lower your expectations, or increase your budget. you can totally do this on 10k but it's going to be a very high strung car that is barely driveable, and it doesn't leave you much room to play with supporting mods either

you can't just make 500hp+ and call it a day, your car will fall apart

 

[KW Baraka]

......What are we looking at with a 500+ n/a?.......

1. Lots of cubic inches.

2. Lots of compression.

3. Solid roller cam & valve train.

4. Lots of cash.

This is your first time with a hi-performance set-up? Then you might want to reconsider your goals.....because a solid roller set-up ain't gonna be the most street friendly beast for a daily driven vehicle.

Now......425 to 450HP at the wheels is very doable with a hydrualic roller set-up.....but past that and you're talking solid roller.

KW

 

[Gamikatsu]

ok... so take this...

stock LT1...275 crank horses

lets figure full CAI/exhaust 30+ hp

were at 300+/- 5

lets figure a GOOD head port and cam package your looking at upwards of 100+ hp gains with tune. (LE2 heads state 410+ RWHP with cam package so food for thought) when you factor in other mods, bigger throttle bodies, etc, your sitting at 400-450 crank hp and really have not even touched the bottom end yet. thats still on STOCK gm pistons/crank/rods.

now lets figure you stroke the SOB... set aside 5-6 thousand for a stroker kit, and some spray... sure its no turbo, but its a monster 383 that when you want the extra power (at that point you could probably spray 300 shot if you select the right componenets) and be at 600+ RWHP laughing at anyone in your rear view mirror and still be a good daily driver, and not have to rev it past 7000 rpms. Selecting proper internals for nitrous would be very important, as would building the fuel system to support it. Injuneer built his 381 LT1 to 500 engine and 300 nitrous horsepower. 800 crank hp is beast for a 94 LT1... sure its not an "Gods gift to F body LS1" but it'l sure beat a mustang! get a good plan , stick with it... and have fun.

 

[dementedjoker]

ok i like gamikatsu's plan here. so you guys are saying if i go lets say food for thought 383 or maybe 396 stroker with forged internals. i think its eagle that sells the stroker kit for like 2 grand last i looked. with bigger heads and a decent size cam, along with the bigger intake and related parts to spray for like times when i want to take it to a track. i could be pushing close to what my goal was in the first place without having to rev the everloving crap out of it? i would also be putting a 3500 stall with 3.73 gears since it will be mostly a DD and track car a little bit. i like this plan better. sorry if all this makes me seem like a moron, really wanting to get my final plans in place so i can start making purchases while im deployed. i had something else i was going to say but the baby distracted me so ill have to ask again when i remember.

 

[KW Baraka]

ok i like gamikatsu's plan here. so you guys are saying if i go lets say food for thought 383 or maybe 396 stroker with forged internals..........

Better yet.......how about a fully assembled, balance & blueprinted forged 383 that's ready for immediate delivery?

http://www.ls1lt1.com/forum/parts-sale/56812-fresh-rebuilt-forged-lt1-4-383ci-short-block.html

This engine and it's current cam made 400+ rwhp with unported Dart 185cc Pro-1 heads.

And you can always throw in a bigger cam and give it more head (no pun intended).

Jus' sayin' .....

KW

 

[Gamikatsu]

10K is a huge budget for a daily driver... now for a dedicated drag strip car... 10K is nothing... literally nothing... but in a street car... 10k will build a very very respectable road warrior. heck 5000 will build a forged bottom end 355 over 400 crank hp with a good shot of spray and some other goodies... (labor included).

don't forget about the labor... a lot of people overlook this... and most shops charge out the yingyang for F body work... :craz28:

just a part of life.

 

[dementedjoker]

yea im hoping i dont have to go that far into the budget. i was just saying 10k to give my self a little room to play with. my main thing to do is forged internals with stroker kit possible if it can be found within budget, some decent heads and intake. bigger throttle body, full msd opti, exhaust, with electric cutouts( not really for performance, just cause i like the sound lol) ram air box with hood, maybe some spray for track days, 3.73 gears, 3500 stall and decent tune. that should get me around where i want to be for hopefully less than 10k if i shop around and get a good deal. and kw i would like to get that motor from you but unfortunately i don't have any money right now lol. im wanting to buy the parts while im gone to the sandbox and build the motor in the kitchen when i get back(the wife doesnt think im serious about that one but she will see differently when my daughter who with be almost 2 is covered in oil and grease when i get back:roflmao oh and the labor im not too worried about just for the simple fact most of the work ill be doing myself, for the exception of the machining that will have to go into the work. that for now is my plan. if you guys have any other ideas keep em comin'. always enjoy input from someone else. thanks:thumbsup:

 

[Fox Slaughter]

Do you want a street brute or a track car?

Automatics are easier to launch than a manual.

 

[dementedjoker]

well then if an auto is easier to launch then i guess ill go with the auto i have with shift kit. and i would like to have a street brute that i can take to the track every once and a while.

 

[Fox Slaughter]

Well a set of heads and a cam will put you over 400rwhp.

That would cost about ~3000 depending on what you chose.
Would put you into the 12s. Low 12s. Add some gears, stall and some sticky tires you'd be looking into the 11s.
Drop some nitrous like a 150 shot you'd be in the 10s.
A stock bottom end can hold this.

Now you would want to have the trans built, also the 10 bolts are known to blow just by looking at them.

A 9in, 12 bolt, or S60 will be around 2500.

So

~3000 heads/cam
~150 mail order tune/500 dyno tune
~300 for injectors
~200 for fuel pump
~1000 nitrous
~2500 rear end
~500 sticky tires
~2000 trans build
-----------------------
~10000.

The bolds are a must for making power even if you wanted the 383.

Cars are not cheap.

 

[steveo]

A stock bottom end can hold this.

wow.. just... wow.

that's some supreme bullshit.

 

[93formulafirebird]

don't forget about the labor... a lot of people overlook this... and most shops charge out the yingyang for F body work... :craz28:

just a part of life.

At the shop i work at every time an F-body rolls up the other mechanic on the floor runs and hides. :lol:

 

[Gamikatsu]

stock bottom ends from what i've been told and read, (ok insert interwebz jokes now please) by very knowledgable people, and from what i have physically seen at the drag strip, auto X tracks, and just plain in person, verify a stock bottom end will hold well over 400 base horsepower plus spray. GM used Pink rods early on, then on to powdered metal rods, that were easiliy capable of 600+ ponies. the pistons are super light weight, and althought its only a 2 bolt main... your more likely to burn a valve or overheat your top end before you damage your bottom end... if not... LT1 engines are a dime a dozen on ebay, craigslist, etc from people going LSX swaps.

 

[steveo]

the 2 bolt mains are the only thing that would not be a weak point at that power level. the stock hypereutectic pistons will split at that level of power with spray if even the slightest miscalculation is made with setup. the rods on the stock bottom end simply have too much compliance to be putting them under that kind of strain, epecially on the track where you'll be hooking. it's just a matter of time.

as the OP said, he is building a street car here, not a ghetto budget 'spray and pray' dragster that may or may not throw a rod at every race. that means any discussion of running components so dangerously close to their failure point is retarded

do it right or don't do it

 

[Fox Slaughter]

wow.. just... wow.

that's some supreme bullshit.

Yeah thats why Vtec on tech is running a 3rd gen with a stock bottom end LT1 with cam, head, nitrous.

Is running 9.4 seconds in the 1/4.

A stock LT1 is known to take 150 shot easy, and take a 200 shot with perfect tuning.

Here go read.
http://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-modifications/1207739-new-stock-lt1-shortblock-record.html

 

[ShowNoMercy]

Yeah thats why Vtec on tech is running a 3rd gen with a stock bottom end LT1 with cam, head, nitrous.

Is running 9.4 seconds in the 1/4.

A stock LT1 is known to take 150 shot easy, and take a 200 shot with perfect tuning.

Here go read.
new stock LT1 shortblock record - LS1TECH

Lets not forget his race weight and its in a full race prepped chassis.

Far from a street car.

 

[Fox Slaughter]

Lets not forget his race weight and its in a full race prepped chassis.

Far from a street car.

The debate isn't what the car does it was that a stock bottom end could support running into the 11s.

"Well a set of heads and a cam will put you over 400rwhp.

That would cost about ~3000 depending on what you chose.
Would put you into the 12s. Low 12s. Add some gears, stall and some sticky tires you'd be looking into the 11s.
Drop some nitrous like a 150 shot you'd be in the 10s.
A stock bottom end can hold this."

This is what I said and Steveo said "supreme bullshit"