Emissions testing standards drop each year - LS1LT1 Forum : LT1, LS1, Camaro, Firebird, Trans Am, Engine Tech Forums
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 08:26 AM Thread Starter
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Emissions testing standards drop each year

I've noticed that the emissions testing standards decrease over time, making our older cars less and less likely to pass the test. Here in GA, for example, in Feb 2016 they allowed 829 PPM NOx in the 50/15 test. In November, that number decreased to 711 PPM. My car continues to pass, but its getting closer and closer to NOT passing, despite the actual tailpipe emissions remaining nearly constant.

Is this the norm everywhere and if so, does anyone know where a schedule of reductions and their according timelines is posted? I suspect its based in something on the national/EPA level, but I've searched a lot online and come up with bupkis - other than the fact that back in 2005, the max allowed NOx was 1800 PPM

1995 LT1 Wagon. ERE 383

Last edited by AtlantaDan; 12-03-2016 at 08:45 AM.
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-04-2016, 07:19 AM
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You should contact the emission testing head office. The emission standards that were set in 1995 are the only one's your car has to comply with.

The government can not make a 1995 car comply with newer car emissions.

Since the emissions office will try to blow smoke up your ass, I suggest contacting a lawyer about a class action lawsuit against the state of Georgia. I'm sure there will be many people who would love to jump on that band wagon.
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-04-2016, 07:34 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cocobolo95 View Post

The government can not make a 1995 car comply with newer car emissions.
Wish that were true, but its not. Unfortunately, it appears that they can (and are) doing exactly this. Its not just in GA either. It doesn't make sense. I could install a 100% new GM-produced engine and replace everything tip-to-tail with OEM parts, and blow a pipe that's actually cleaner than when the car was manufactured - and still fail the test. As it is right now, I blow a cleaner tailpipe than when the car was new - and not by a little, either - and I'm just barely able to get under NOx. Looking at how the NOx standards have dropped, I may not pass come April. After that, I've no idea what I'm going to do.

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-04-2016, 10:45 AM
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Just because there are many states doing this doesn't make it legal. I believe this is a ploy to get older cars off the road.

Living in a big city like Atlanta, you should be able to find a lawyer who is well versed in emission laws. I'm sure he will tell you the same thing I have. Someone needs to stand up to government agencies making illegal mandates.

We have become a country that lies down and lets the government walk all over us.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-04-2016, 11:55 PM
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This could all change with trump in office. Get all the tree hugging rock humping liberals out

97 trans am ws6 with only 25k on it, your typical heads and comp cam port and polished intake, pace setter long tubes, borla catbac, 58mm TB 32lb injectors, moser ford 9" with 4.10 gears, SFC,lower control arms,adjustable panhard bar,adjustable torque arm, rear sway bar, 3-1/2 inch drive shaft with Ds loop and poly bushings,finally got traction with new nitto drag radial extremes,410 rwhp 385 ftlbs of torque. And a tune from pcmforless
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-05-2016, 05:43 AM Thread Starter
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As we have all seen time and time again, just because something is unfair, doesn't mean the Government won't do it or make it law. I've been rooting around for more information on this policy and where it came from, and all of the states that do emissions testing on OBD1 cars are following this policy as well. The EPA itself is also adjusting allowable emissions downward as time goes on, but from what I can see - the standards they are publishing (tier 1, tier 2, tier 3) are all applicable to NEW cars. Meaning that the tier 1 standards were applied to new cars starting in 1994, tier 2 kicked in in 2004, and tier 3 in 2017. I can't find documentation anywhere that shows that my 23 year old car needs to hit tier 3 standards, but I'm not an attorney and may be misreading the documentation.

Interestingly enough, the emissions from my cammed 383 are pretty darn clean. Here's a test I took last month to see what the new tune was doing.
The only thing I see that's worrisome is the NOx and I suspect that once I get new cats that'll address the problem. If not, I'll dial-back the timing and run a few bottles of HEET in the tank at test-time.

I have been trying to get an attorney interested in this, Cocobolo, but so far here in ATL anyway, no takers. I've got the $ to get the ball rolling and I'm willing to spend it, but there appears to be very little interest around here.

1995 LT1 Wagon. ERE 383

Last edited by AtlantaDan; 12-05-2016 at 09:51 AM.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-05-2016, 09:54 AM Thread Starter
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Update: I had a nice 20 minute long call with the vehicle emissions testing coordinator for the Georgia EPA. He said point blank that the standards do not change over time and that they never have. This is after giving him my own certificate numbers for him to look at - that plainly show the values have changed.

Does anyone have any old OBD1 emissions testing results from Georgia for a Caprice/Impala SS? It would be interesting to see what they were back in 2005 or so.

1995 LT1 Wagon. ERE 383
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-09-2016, 06:34 AM
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My whole point is that the government can't require a 1995 car to meet pollution standards that weren't mandated in 1995 for that car. If people would stand up against such tactics then the government would have to back down.

But alas, unlike the 1960's and 70's when I grew up, people have become complacent sheep and allow the government and corporations to treat us as they please.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-09-2016, 07:22 AM Thread Starter
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(Knock knock)
You: Well shit. Who's at the door?
(Open door)
Him: Hello citizen! I'm your county's building inspector and code enforcement officer. I'm here to inspect your house.
You: Uh, you must have the wrong house. I've not built anything new here in a decade or so - and back then, it all was permitted and inspected.
Him: Ha ha! You'd be correct yesterday, citizen, but not today! Now your house has to meet all of the 2016 building codes.
You: I'm sorry. What? This house was built in 1977.
Him: Really? Well that sucks for you! Everything from stud-spacing to insulation thickness has changed a lot since then. You may have to tear this place down and rebuild it in order to conform. Pucker up, citizen! Let's get to work!

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