Thinking about installing a New Ring and Pinion myself, any advice? - LS1LT1 Forum : LT1, LS1, Camaro, Firebird, Trans Am, Engine Tech Forums

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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-07-2011, 08:49 PM Thread Starter
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Thinking about installing a New Ring and Pinion myself, any advice?

The rear end in my 95 F body popped the other day, nothing shot out or anything. Took the cover off, 3 teeth from the pinion are stuck in the mag. If i can do it myself without screwing anything up I would like to. how hard is changing the ring and pinion?? Do I have to mess with any tolerances, lashes, or gear alignment if I do this? how do i figure out which gearing is in the rear end?
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-08-2011, 08:31 AM
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Do I have to mess with any tolerances, lashes, or gear alignment if I do this?
Very much so.

Just two slow 4 doors.
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-08-2011, 10:47 AM
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It is a lengthy process and if don't have all the tools you'll need to borrow or buy which can get expensive. It can be done, I did mine for the first time two years ago. Here is a write up that will give you an idea what you're in for: Installing Gears

http://www.youtube.com/user/MysteryBird1?feature=watch
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-08-2011, 01:11 PM
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I did it last year in my father shop... Without his shop there is no way it would get done. Also what these guy's said above. It's not a cake walk, but it can be done.

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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-08-2011, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input. Looks like I am going to take it somewhere to get done. Tolerances and stuff are not my thing, not confident enough to mess with that stuff.
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-08-2011, 11:04 PM
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If you expect to take a week to do the job you'll probably end up doing it better than a mechanic. When you do get it done by you or someone else make sure to take the time to break the gears in or else you'll end up burning them up. Also, make sure to use conventional gear oil for break in. If you are running the OE carrier you might want to consider buying a new carrier unit, that is if funds allow. If not, just do what's easiest and best for you. Doing it myself wasn't easy, but when I completed it I had the greatest high in the world.

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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-08-2011, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caseycallender View Post
The rear end in my 95 F body popped the other day, nothing shot out or anything. Took the cover off, 3 teeth from the pinion are stuck in the mag. If i can do it myself without screwing anything up I would like to. how hard is changing the ring and pinion?? Do I have to mess with any tolerances, lashes, or gear alignment if I do this? how do i figure out which gearing is in the rear end?

If you dont have the experience, leave it alone!!!! Find a qualified shop to guarantee the job, just to follow-up on any warranty issues that can result. Ive seen and heard few attempts from good owners that didnt want to pony-up the dough..... they pretty much wasted away 300 bucks on parts just to shell out another $700 for the entire job! Be smart friend, consult a good shop.

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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-08-2011, 11:21 PM
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[QUOTE=xDetroitMetalx;408884]If you expect to take a week to do the job you'll probably end up doing it better than a mechanic.


.....uhhh, I doubt this! Oh and you mentioned gears and how one can burn them, this is NOT true, they are heat-treated already. You can however score and overheat the bearing races and bearing though!

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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-08-2011, 11:24 PM
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If I would have listened to you a year ago then I wouldn't have new gears and new carrier in my car. Nor would I have learned anything. I knew the fundamentals of preload so I guess I was ahead of the game but I didn't know anything else. I trust myself more than any shop in the world.

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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-08-2011, 11:29 PM
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...uhhh, I doubt this! Oh and you mentioned gears and how one can burn them, this is NOT true, they are heat-treated already. You can however score and overheat the bearing races and bearing though!
Oh yea? I guess I'm the only one in the world that burnt mine then. Gears become hardened when first ran. If you don't take the proper procedures to go through the process then you melt them. I had to do the job twice because I followed the Yukon instructions to break them in, which ARE NOT the proper break in procedures. My first set of gears were melted within the initial 40 miles that Yukon claims to drive them in. The thing sounded like a damn propeller air plane after 70 miles. When I took the cap off you could see material in the diff oil and each tooth had a lift that you see on a quarter for example. There were tiny holes in the ring gear. The steel was still soft, not hardened.

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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-09-2011, 08:43 AM
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.....uhhh, I doubt this! Oh and you mentioned gears and how one can burn them, this is NOT true, they are heat-treated already. You can however score and overheat the bearing races and bearing though!
I hear this all the time. They DO need to be broken in for street use as they are run in a different environment than they are used in.

New Gear Break In

Cliffs for the lazy:
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In order to make them run cooler and quieter, new gears are lapped at the factory. However, they are not lapped under the same pressures that driving creates. The loads generated while driving, force any microscopic high spots on the gear teeth back into the surface of the metal. This is called "work hardening". Work hardening is similar to forging in the way that it compresses the metal molecules into a very compact and hard formation. This can only be accomplished if the metal surfaces are lubricated and the gear temperature stays cool enough that the molecular structure does not change. If the temperature of the metal gets hot enough to change the molecular structure, it will soften the surface instead of hardening it. This may seen like a balancing act but it all happens easily & passively as long as the oil keeps the gear cool while it is breaking in.

Last edited by WildBillyT; 06-09-2011 at 08:46 AM.
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-09-2011, 08:50 AM
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If you expect to take a week to do the job you'll probably end up doing it better than a mechanic. .
Yes!
Setting up rear ends is a specialty. Not very many mechanics are actually good at doing it.
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-09-2011, 10:45 AM
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Mechanics work off of time. Therefore the quicker the turn around the more money they will make. If they charge $75 labor and end up only charging you around $300 for install that's only 4 hours. I'm sorry, this is not a 4 hour job for ANYONE. All bearings MUST be pressed out and back in repeatedly. Shims must be added and removed multiple times to find the perfect backlash so that the gears are set up correctly so they don't break nor make noise. Each time you change the back lash the bearings must be removed and pressed in again on the pinion. Each try takes at least 30 minutes if you have the right tools. Every rear end and gear set up is different, it's not a perfect science, more of a guessing game to find the correct pattern. I can guarantee a common shop throws everything in there once and sends you on your way praying not to see you ever again. You need to pay a ring and pinion specialist to do this. Not just a well known shop.

A proper break in procedure is long and tedious within itself. You drive two miles stop and let the gear oil cool. Then you double it each time. Go 4 miles let it cool. 8 miles and let it cool. 16 miles and let it cool. After this you can go on shorter trips but you MUST make sure you give the oil time to cool off again. I wouldn't suggest putting the pedal to the metal until a week has passed with the gears during calm driving.


Last edited by xDetroitMetalx; 06-09-2011 at 10:49 AM.
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-09-2011, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by xDetroitMetalx View Post
Mechanics work off of time. Therefore the quicker the turn around the more money they will make. If they charge $75 labor and end up only charging you around $300 for install that's only 4 hours. I'm sorry, this is not a 4 hour job for ANYONE. All bearings MUST be pressed out and back in repeatedly. Shims must be added and removed multiple times to find the perfect backlash so that the gears are set up correctly so they don't break nor make noise. Each time you change the back lash the bearings must be removed and pressed in again on the pinion. Each try takes at least 30 minutes if you have the right tools. Every rear end and gear set up is different, it's not a perfect science, more of a guessing game to find the correct pattern. I can guarantee a common shop throws everything in there once and sends you on your way praying not to see you ever again. You need to pay a ring and pinion specialist to do this. Not just a well known shop.

A proper break in procedure is long and tedious within itself. You drive two miles stop and let the gear oil cool. Then you double it each time. Go 4 miles let it cool. 8 miles and let it cool. 16 miles and let it cool. After this you can go on shorter trips but you MUST make sure you give the oil time to cool off again. I wouldn't suggest putting the pedal to the metal until a week has passed with the gears during calm driving.
YES!

I would even go so far as to say most mechanics would not do a perfect job in a professional setting- too costly. If you can find a driveline shop in your area that may be better and even cheaper.
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-09-2011, 11:30 AM
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That breakin period is tough to wait out, especially when you add mods the same time you did the rear.

http://www.youtube.com/user/MysteryBird1?feature=watch
1995 TA: Converted Nose...381 LT1...4L80E...12 bolt...3.90 Gears...4000 TC
Best 1/4 10.78@ 124, 1.46 60ft, 3450lbs.
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