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post #1 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-01-2013, 07:50 AM Thread Starter
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LE Cam Questions

New guy here. I've been on ls1tech for a few months now but I want to learn as much about these lt1s as I can. I'm soon rebuilding the worn out almost 200k motor in my 1996 z28 that I picked up back in June and I've been searching for the best cam for my needs. I'm pretty ecstatic about getting it going and having fun with it. It's going to be my new daily driver once I get it running so I was considering the cc503. But then I started briefly emailing Lloyd Elliot and told him my situation so he recommended me his 226/232*.614/.624 110 LSA cam. I can't find any info on this cam with a .614/624 lift, only smaller.

So I wanting to know what you guys would think about that cam in a daily driven, occasional track car?And what kind of power do you think it will make over the cc503 through an A4 with stock (for now) heads? It won't be anything special, just a 355 with some forged pistons through an automatic. I plan on getting some Pacesetter LTs and a X pipe set up with some cut outs and getting everything tuned by PCMForless. If I do get this cam I plan on going at least 3.73s and a 3200 stall. Maybe bigger. Thanks for any input!
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post #2 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-01-2013, 08:13 AM
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Loyd is a very knowledgable guy,especially when it comes to LT1's.
If you are honest and straightfoward with him,he will definitely lead you in
the proper direction. ed
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post #3 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-01-2013, 08:13 AM
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That should be a pretty good street/strip cam with good power and decent street manors. If you had the heads and bolt ons to match with good tuning it should see high 11's. You'll need a few suspension mods and sticky tires as well.

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post #4 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-01-2013, 09:53 AM
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If u are wanting to put down a certain amount of power let LE know that as well. The more info u can give him the better.
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post #5 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-01-2013, 10:42 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. And since I'm rebuilding the motor I don't have enough for new heads right now but I do have a good friend that will port them for me for free so I'm thinking about doing that just to get them cleaned up a bit. Anything above the cc503's usual of 320-330rwhp would make me happy being an auto. I was also considering using a 150 shot later on down the road after getting like you said some suspension mods and sticky tires. That's the reason for the forged pistons.
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post #6 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-01-2013, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
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I was also wondering about the advantages of going with NSA or SA rockers. I was told with a cam like that that I would probably need NSA rockers but LE recommended me self aligning CC Ultra Pro Magnum 1.6rr's and new Magnum 3/8 studs with the cam.
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post #7 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-01-2013, 05:23 PM
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I'm not sure I'd run that much lift with stock heads. That's a TON of lift. Maybe with a set of AFR's or Trick Flows, but not with a home-ported stock setup. I like the duration and LSA. That's a good call, but the lift doesn't look right to me.

I'd run guide plates and non-SA Comp Ultra Pro Magnum rockers on 7/16" studs if it were me. Studs are cheap, and you're buying new rockers anyway...

1995 Camaro Z-28, M6, 396 stroker, Scat forged 3.875" crank, Scat Ultra Q-Lite 6" H-beams, Icon forged pistons (4.030"), splayed 4 bolt w/ARP studs, 12.25:1, AFR 210 heads (2.08"/1.6", 58cc), Comp Ultra Pro Magnum XD 1.7:1 rockers, GM847 cam (234/242 .611"/.632"), Edelbrock LT4 air-gap intake, Spec Stage 3+ clutch, Fidanza aluminum flywheel, 24x conversion, 0411 PCM, TPIS 58mm, Bosch III 42# injectors, Aeromotive 340, Kook's stepped LT's, Kook's custom stainless 3-1/2" merge ORY, Magnaflow
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post #8 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-01-2013, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastLT1 View Post
Thanks guys. And since I'm rebuilding the motor I don't have enough for new heads right now but I do have a good friend that will port them for me for free so I'm thinking about doing that just to get them cleaned up a bit. Anything above the cc503's usual of 320-330rwhp would make me happy being an auto. I was also considering using a 150 shot later on down the road after getting like you said some suspension mods and sticky tires. That's the reason for the forged pistons.
320-330 is low even for a Hotcam, the 503 should be in the 370 range with heads.

1989 jaguar xjs, '93 z/28 eng.& trans. asp pullies,csi,1.7 scorpions,26918 springs, transgo, yank ss3600, homemade shorties,dr. gas x, alvins tune 12.82@104 1.74 60' 3900#
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post #9 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-01-2013, 05:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynamic396 View Post
I'm not sure I'd run that much lift with stock heads. That's a TON of lift. Maybe with a set of AFR's or Trick Flows, but not with a home-ported stock setup. I like the duration and LSA. That's a good call, but the lift doesn't look right to me.

I'd run guide plates and non-SA Comp Ultra Pro Magnum rockers on 7/16" studs if it were me. Studs are cheap, and you're buying new rockers anyway...
That's what I was thinking too. Maybe I'll just go with his common 226/232 .578/.574 110LSA cam. But can you explain what the advantages of non-SA rockers with 7/16 studs vs SA with 3/8 studs is?
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post #10 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-01-2013, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lt1-xjs View Post
320-330 is low even for a Hotcam, the 503 should be in the 370 range with heads.
Well I was really referring to stock unported heads with the cams because I'm still on the fence about letting my friend port them.
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post #11 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-06-2013, 02:50 PM
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320-330 is about right for auto hotcam'd car.

A member on another forum although a 6spd car put down 380rwhp with the cc503 and le2 heads. So that being said with an auto car you be 10-20rwhp lower.

That 226/232 from what ive heard is a really good manored cam and makes great numbers. A member here has that cam again with le2s through a 6spd and heavy 9" and make 390+rwhp iifc

A friend of mine runs the LE 223/230 cam with a set of ported AFR 190s and puts down around 400rwhp mark and runs super strong.

1995 Trans Am A4 - Purple
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post #12 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-06-2013, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lt1-xjs View Post
......the 503 should be in the 370 range with heads.
With stock heads and stock compression......unlikely.

KW
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post #13 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-06-2013, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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Well I actually just bought a 93 LT1 motor with 79,000 on it that I'm going to swap my vented opti and stuff onto. Thatll save me money instead of rebuilding mine like i planned so I'm probably just going to go with the CC503 with some port matched heads for now
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post #14 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-07-2013, 06:31 AM
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Fast lt1 Agree with your decision. That cam is very high lift for Lt1 with stock heads. Excessive duration for daily driver occaisional strip. Better for Strip saturday night special and occaisional cruise. Requires expensive springs and the best top end parts. Rev range for optimal power with stock short block and that big cam could put you in spun bearing territory. That cam should shift 6300RPM minimum. The stock LT1 heads run out of flow port stall at .510" lift .614/.624 lift is what I'd run with his LE3 top flowing ported heads.

You can see in table 2 that intake flow on stock heads falls off before .550 Lift intake side and still benefits exhaust at .550 from the tests i've seen .530 Intake .550 exhaust gets the best of stock heads. cc503 .503 .510 with 1.6 rockers .536 intake and .543 Exhaust. If doing custom cam .535 intake .555 Exhaust gets close to all the flow stock heads are capable of. Going with higher lift adds faster valve timing requiring stronger springs and makes power at higher RPM range than a cam with the same duration and lower lift. CC503 lift at .503 and .510 is 95% LT1 head flow (212 I 152 E at .500" Lift) while allowing less costly valvetrain components and greater longevity for valve guide wear. Stock iron guides wear out fast(costing up to 30hp) with lifts above .5 bronze valve guide solves this problem. Cam designers like the high lift with shorter duration it adds power up top without adding duration allowing better idle. At all points .3 .4 and .5 lift the valves are open farther with a high lift cam due to faster ramp rates the (don't like this buzzword) area under the curve is better without additional paper duration.

In other words
beyond optimal lift adds top end power without having to grind larger paper duration giving better idle and specs more powerful compared to another cam of the same duration lower lift. But a more costly valvetrain is required to control it and better heads and bottom end should be used to utilize its benefits.


http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/Cylinde..._head_flow.htm

The 503 and gasket matched intake exhaust stock heads much safer and less costly especially for daily driver occaisional track use.

93 Z28 T-tops T56 6spd 3.23 Gears,
Mostly Stock.

Last edited by Viper; 01-07-2013 at 06:50 AM.
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post #15 of 52 (permalink) Old 01-07-2013, 12:33 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper View Post
Fast lt1 Agree with your decision. That cam is very high lift for Lt1 with stock heads. Excessive duration for daily driver occaisional strip. Better for Strip saturday night special and occaisional cruise. Requires expensive springs and the best top end parts. Rev range for optimal power with stock short block and that big cam could put you in spun bearing territory. That cam should shift 6300RPM minimum. The stock LT1 heads run out of flow port stall at .510" lift .614/.624 lift is what I'd run with his LE3 top flowing ported heads.

You can see in table 2 that intake flow on stock heads falls off before .550 Lift intake side and still benefits exhaust at .550 from the tests i've seen .530 Intake .550 exhaust gets the best of stock heads. cc503 .503 .510 with 1.6 rockers .536 intake and .543 Exhaust. If doing custom cam .535 intake .555 Exhaust gets close to all the flow stock heads are capable of. Going with higher lift adds faster valve timing requiring stronger springs and makes power at higher RPM range than a cam with the same duration and lower lift. CC503 lift at .503 and .510 is 95% LT1 head flow (212 I 152 E at .500" Lift) while allowing less costly valvetrain components and greater longevity for valve guide wear. Stock iron guides wear out fast(costing up to 30hp) with lifts above .5 bronze valve guide solves this problem. Cam designers like the high lift with shorter duration it adds power up top without adding duration allowing better idle. At all points .3 .4 and .5 lift the valves are open farther with a high lift cam due to faster ramp rates the (don't like this buzzword) area under the curve is better without additional paper duration.

In other words
beyond optimal lift adds top end power without having to grind larger paper duration giving better idle and specs more powerful compared to another cam of the same duration lower lift. But a more costly valvetrain is required to control it and better heads and bottom end should be used to utilize its benefits.


LT1 vs LT4 vs LS1 stock vs ported head flow

The 503 and gasket matched intake exhaust stock heads much safer and less costly especially for daily driver occaisional track use.
That's really good information! Thanks man. Hopefully I'll have it running in a month or so
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