LS1 reliability

[Enthusiast]

Hey guys I was wondering what high miles will do to an LS1. As in what parts are prone to fail. What about the internals? I know the 5.0s could just eat up the miles and then you tear them down and the bores are almost perfect. I was wondering because a buddy of mine has a 98 trans am with 132K miles on it and he says it still runs strong as hell. So about what mileage (ball park) would you say they need to be rebuilt if they are well taken care of? Also what effect does the miles have on the LS1?

[LS13RDGEN]

We have 120K on Morriss and she dyno'd 331 RWHP.
In the graph you can see where the stock valve train couldn't stay consistant at the higher rpm range but hell that is not too shabby for a stock motor and some bolt ons. :D

I took the LS1 out of Rally and rebuilt it only because I suspected the piston rings of being bad. The cylinder walls looked good, bearings looked good and I was impressed with how well everything looked.

Out of the 3 LS1 cars we have, I would say that they are very reliable. But then again, I can't say that any one of them are completely stock either. :D

[Enthusiast]

So besides the rings everything looked good? Im not to worried about valve train because if I had an LS1 car I would swap that out right away. So how much would you say replacing rings would run on an LS1.

[LS13RDGEN]

The only reason I replaced the rings in Rally was because I bought the motor used and I had suspected that the previous owner ran NOS and perhaps ran too much on a stock tune.
The compression test I ran was not as high as it should have been and when adding a few drops of oil, increased it. So that lead me to believe the rings were bad.
I replaced them with Sealed Power Rings and I want to say that they ran me $150.
I wouldn't say that bad rings was common on high milage LS1's, this was an isolated incident. :D

If I were to buy an LS1 with 132K miles on it then I would have to consider one of two things:

1. If I was going to leave it stock, then it should be fine. Drive it until it finally gives out.

2. If I was going to mod it, then I would yank the engine, put in new rings, bearings and clean the hell out of it. Then new valvetrain to top it off. From there, I would have no worry about the motor and what I planned to do to it. :D

My two cents of course. :D

[topendlt1]

Its amazing how long a well built motor will last, and the LS1 is no exception.
I guy at the track here in Buffalo, NY has over 180K on a 99 Formula with a 100 Shot, and the motor he says was only rebuilt once, around 140K.
and It runs just dandy ;)

I bought my LT1 with over 80K about 3 years ago ( I know, different engine, but similar to some extent ) and over two summers ive managed about 10K a year. (Its on about 6-8 months a year, and I cant wait for May ) Its over 100k now, but im not worried about it in the slightest. Motor runs very smooth and holds excellent oil pressure.

Previous owners are key to buying a Performance V8.

Look and Listen for things that might we worn due to abuse.
Whines in the rear or under the hood ( thats never good )
Even rips in the seat and small cracks in the dash can give you a good idea of what the car has been through. Rims taken care of? Underneath clean, did it ever see winter, how many owners and what where there ages?

These are the questions I thought about before I spent 6K on a car, and I looked at two Lt1s and one pounded Ls1 before I made my choice. ( and the LS1 STILL cranked ) But I chose my car because its what I liked. I hope you do the same, and good luck!! :) ( Plus, black is just a badass color! :devil: )

[Enthusiast]

Well Im still pretty sold on an LT1 car, those are my true loves but my dad asked me to do some research for him so maybe he could pic an LS1 car up for a cheap just to play around with.

[Ωmega]

Like they said, if you plan on building it up, there's a few things to worry about, but most high milage LS1s are still putting the power down. If modifying it is in the future, a refresh is a good idea, and new lifters is almost a must, in my opinion.

[topendlt1]

Hey man, youre buying an Fbody with an LT1/LS1.
There is no wrong choice.
But I wouldnt recommended a car just because its really fast unless your a track jocky. I've only ran my car a handful of times, and for some reason I felt bad doing it. :dontknow:

But youre on the right track...:thumbsup:

[CamTom12]

Springs. They'll wear out after a while...

Other than that, I don't think miles can kill an LS1, unless you forget to change the oil for a couple to 20k miles... haha

[Enthusiast]

No I will be running at the 1/4 mile and Auto-X and Road Course a lot. I will probably be doing it in an LT1 I was wondering about the LS1 because My dad alwasy talks about wanting something fun to play in and I thought maybe Id get him a cheap LS1 Maro. It seems more "him" than an LT1.

[topendlt1]

This age old argument comes down to one thing $$$$$$

If you get the LS1, you already have a 13 second car.
The LT1 is certainly capable, but the only reason I see to get an LT1 would be to save some $$.

But thats not true in all cases, some LS1's ive seen sell at auctions and locally ( autotrader ) for 3500-7000 with about 75k-130K, and that isnt too bad. ( My father has a dealers license and Ive bought cars and trucks for real cheap. I might buy a dragger from there, but my everyday driver i'd want to check out real good before I bid, and at auctions that can be hard to do if its already goin through a lane. Its a gamble. I didnt gamble on my Z.

But youre talkin track..
some people just enjoy building cars... The LT1 would be a great candidate to learn and have fun, and I wouldnt mind seein an LT1 surprise the LS1 and Cobra once in awhile with a total and complete ass kickin, cause the potential is no doubt there.. :D

I paid for lower miles and a black car, and I certainly didnt get the low price I was looking for, but when I see something I want, I dont want a deal, I want quality. You get what ya pay for.

The LT1 VS LS1 post might help you, (some of its bias and immature) but there's some good help in there if you pick through.

Its up to you chief!

[Enthusiast]

Okay i think there is a little missunderstaNDING. I WILL be buying me and LT1 car, I want to buy my dad an LS1 car for around 7 grand, so I was wondering how the LS1s deteriorate over many miles.

[Chris 96 WS6]

Yeah this is NOT an LS1 v LT1 thread.

[topendlt1]

Oops, I read your first message kind of fast.

If it runs smooth, holds good oil pressure and sounds ok.

Ive seen motor's go at 60K because of abuse and improper maintienence.
Ive also seen motors go 140K without a rebuild. Not thats taken care of your ride. :thumbsup:

I was not trying to defer the LT1/LS1 at all. ( read my post ) I just misread yours. Sorry for the mixup

[Chris 96 WS6]

I've seen small blocks ABUSED and go to 180k+

140K miles is nothing anymore...

[Enthusiast]

Well My first truck was a 95 dodge ram. Its got 285K miles on it and the only thing every done to the inside of the engine was some lifters and new rockers. I beat the hell out of it but maintained it tediously. It is now a ranch truck and its still runs damn good.

[CamTom12]

My truck's got 170K or so on the stock 22-RE. Other than a slight miss at low RPM and a nagging lack of power (stupid 4-cyl gas saver...) it's got at least that much left in it :)

The LS1 is build like a brick shit-house. It'd take one hell of a storm to knock it over :D

[Enthusiast]

Nicely put. Im gonna start looking for my pops car. I think thatd be a good gift for him after what he did for me.

[topendlt1]

[/QUOTECAMTON12]The LS1 is build like a brick shit-house. It'd take one hell of a storm to knock it over :D[/QUOTE]

Where do you guys get this shit. I had to lean over and laugh for a moment when i read this.

[fbodyhp]

i had 140k on my 95 lt1 and i was still getting third gear brake stands and 4th gear rubber,i changed that oil every 2,500 on the dot,i did have to replace the opti spark distributor and while i was in there i did the water pump plugs,wires,coil,thats all shit that will go no matter what though,oh yea my first of 4 trans am's had 214k when i sold it and still whent fine

[Phoenix57]

on one of the vette boards, there was a guy that had over 250k on his LS1 vette. he had the water pump and springs replaced, and trans rebuilt, but never opened the block. idk if hes still runnin it on the stock engine, i haven't heard anything in awhile. the LS1 is an awesome engine and is built very well. personally, i would be weary of anything over 100k. if i did get one, i would change the springs, check the pushrods, change the timing chain, check compression, and probably change the water pump. the internals are tough as sin

['97z28m6]

ive got 103k on my lt1 and its my daily driver and i can't keep my foot off the gas, there is probley always one point in every single day where i feel the need to get on it (maybe thats why my gas is gone in about 5 days) and i haven't had a single problem, bought it with 80k on it and the previous owner only had to change the water pump once because it seized after he never refilled the coolant, so in my opinion that was just operator error, people are always saying how american cars are so unreliable, well ive got 2 friends with civics and they have seen more shop time in 1 year then my car has seen its whole life... just something to think about

[topendlt1]

100k aint nothin
The 99' LS1 I test drove had 74k, and it ran strong, but the LT1 had more lower end torque.
That LS1 was beat to hell and back, and it still ran good.

My Z28 now has 107K, and it runs like new oil pressure.
I love it.

And if youre gonna mess with me, LS1 guys, go ahead.
My dodge had 440 ft/lbs of Torque. ( No turbo, S/C, Nos, .... nothin. just one badass motor. )
So dont tell me I dont know what "Tq" is.

[CamTom12]

it's ok. You can have your lower-end torque. :thumbsup:

Horsepower is just a factor of RPM and torque anyway. I'll take my higher RPM torque peak, Higher overall torque, higher HP motor :lol:

[topendlt1]

Rev that Ls1 :)
Vroom! Vroom!
High RPMS are great for durability and long engine life! :thumbsup:

I'll take my lower torque peak, higher "average driving" torque, and much more aggresive average shifting LT1 monster. Damn right I'll have my lower end torque

Just crusin around, taking corners, BAMM its there.. Easy on the gas... BAMM its there.
Vroom Vroom that LS1!

:eek: "You must be from Texas, I'll be watchin you"
http://www.moviewavs.com/cgi-bin/moviewavs.cgi?Full_Metal_Jacket=cowboy.wav

[LiquidFire350]

100k aint nothin
The 99' LS1 I test drove had 74k, and it ran strong, but the LT1 had more lower end torque.

i dont understand you arugement, your lt1 has low end torque, that means nothing in a race when your at the high end

and if you just crusing it, who cares about the low end torque your not trying to race grandma in her stationwagon, and if you were, look at point #1, racing takes place in high RPMs

so you can keep your low end torque monster, i like knowing my motor isnt going to fall on its face after 4K

[topendlt1]

i dont understand you arugement, your lt1 has low end torque, that means nothing in a race when your at the high end

and if you just crusing it, who cares about the low end torque your not trying to race grandma in her stationwagon, and if you were, look at point #1, racing takes place in high RPMs

so you can keep your low end torque monster, i like knowing my motor isnt going to fall on its face after 4K



:congrats: I see your car dynoed more HP than Tq!
If an LT1 dynoed 302hp , do you know much Tq it would have...??

I have no argument. This is not a debate.

And yeah, I care about and enjoy effortless power, just like in a truck.
If i wanted the faster car , I would have bought the LS1 now, wouldn't I?
But sadly enough, speed isnt everything, I got my R1 for that.
02' YZF-R1 Stock 1/4 10.22 sec @ 135 :notworthy

I bought my car based on other things. I love my LT1 for what it is... Can you comprehend?
Like interior design, body style, ohh and its exactly what i wanted since I was a kid...;)
And you want to talk racing ? ah haha, just gimma a buzz playa, I'll be glad to.

Ill give you 8 car lengths, and the bottle.

[LiquidFire350]

i like how you have to bring a bike into this, all im saying is your almightly lowend torque goes away, fairly quick i might add, ill take the LS1 that makes about the same amount and carries it for awhile

so get your panties out of a bunch, no one likes a preacher

[topendlt1]

i dont understand you arugement, your lt1 has low end torque, that means nothing in a race when your at the high end

and if you just crusing it, who cares about the low end torque your not trying to race grandma in her stationwagon, and if you were, look at point #1, racing takes place in high RPMs

so you can keep your low end torque monster, i like knowing my motor isnt going to fall on its face after 4K



:congrats: I see your car dynoed more HP than Tq!
If an LT1 dynoed 302hp , do you know much Tq it would have...??

I have no argument. This is not a debate.

And yeah, I care about and enjoy effortless power, just like in a truck.
If i wanted the faster car , I would have bought the LS1 now, wouldn't I?
But sadly enough, speed isnt everything, I got my R1 for that.
02' YZF-R1 Stock 1/4 10.22 sec @ 135 :notworthy

I bought my car based on other things. I love my LT1 for what it is... Can you comprehend?
I bought my car based on other things. I love my LT1 for what it is... Can you comprehend?

Ohh shoot, did that get on there twice.. ohh darn

Alright there young blood.

I am a very relaxed laid back kinda guy, and I have to say, your replies are crackin me up:lol:

You brought up speed, so I'll quote you...

"Racing takes place at high rpms"
"Low end torque means nothing in a race"
"I'll take the LS1 that carries it for awhile" Good for you!! :thumbsup:

:roflmao: Dont try and play it off now , you already typed it!!

I liked the fact I had to bring my bike into this too :thumbsup:

And yeah if you want to compare " speed ", I will bring my bike into this because I bought that for speed and racing, not my LT1.
My Z goes 150+, so it doesnt exactly fall on its face. ( CAI, Custom Tune )

[LiquidFire350]

My Z goes 150+, so it doesnt exactly fall on its face. ( CAI, Custom Tune )
they all can do that stock, your CAI and Tune have nothing to do with that
im not saying the LT1 is a bad motor
its just your low end torque is teh roxxors!!!!!111oneone comments are getting annoying, especially in a thread that questions the LS1's reliablity nots its powerband

[Chris 96 WS6]

Stock LT1 dyno:

http://ws6.com/image/pulley.gif

Stock LS1 dyno:

http://gmhightechperformance.com/tech/0311htp_projls1_22_z.jpg

[topendlt1]

Wow.
Chris, you are da man! I love a guy who has the facts. No disses, no bullshit, just the black and white truth. Job well done.

Even I didnt think it was that close.
Them LS1 boys might argue them graphs are real!
The Torque curve on the LS1 doesnt even hit 300 until over 4000 RPMS!
What surprises me even more, the LT1 torque curve holds over 300+ all the way until 5000 RPM!

Who said something about falling on its face? Have you ever rode in an LT1?

This explains the 97 SS m6 I seen with a couple bolton's spank a 00'Z28 m6!
Twice in a row!




Im so excited im gonna go ride my bicycle!

[Chris 96 WS6]

Actually I come down on the LS1 side of the debate. I can't believe you can argue with a straight face the LT1 has any real advantages.

Low end torque is very overrated. If you have enough torque to break the tires loose then you have more than you need really, so who cares if the LT1 has 20 more FT lbs when its giving up 50hp from 3000-6000 rpm?

Tq = work. HP = work over time. More HP means you can get the same work done in less time (faster 1/4 mile) or more work done in the same amount of time.

The old saying "HP sells cars but tq wins races" is total bunk.

And actually, when I look at the LT1 that's not a representative car. 275hp? Methinks that's not a good example.

Here's the graph of my car dead stock except a muffler and K&N filter.

http://mtfba.org/chris96ws6/photos/1-20-01dyno.png

[topendlt1]

Actually I come down on the LS1 side of the debate

What debate?

. I can't believe you can argue with a straight face the LT1 has any real advantages.

When did I say that? What advantages?

Are you talkin about low end tq? Yes I believe the LT1 has the advantage.
In a race, the LS1 takes over... thats nice! :thumbsup:


Where did I argue that the LS1 wasnt a better motor?
I just said I liked the low end torque, no matter what vehicle. You people argue like woman!
I didnt say anything about racing until one of those other guys got offensive and told me all about the LS1 and how much faster it is. Good for you! :thumbsup:

[Chris 96 WS6]

OK, no debate, but you seem very eager to point out the LT1 wins at least one category of comparison. :D

Technically yes the LT1 has more tq at 2400 rpm, I just don't think that does much good. Even at normal driving you don't spend much time at that RPM.

[CamTom12]

especially not much time at WOT at 2400rpm, just my 2 cents worth

[topendlt1]

especially not much time at WOT at 2400rpm, just my 2 cents worth

Youre just not paying attention, are you?



Alright, first off. TRUCE!

I Love both engines, they both kick ass.

And yes, for my daily driver, average shifting, give or take some throttle ( Its three lanes to college and back, 20 minutes each way:devil: ). takes place around 1800-3200 RPMS.

The torque the LT1 puts out in that range is excellent, thats all Im saying.
That does alot for me... I love it! :rolleyes:
And if you gun it, it will go.
It might not rip the 12.9 like the LS1 will, but a 13.4-13.6 is pretty respectable with some bolt ons, dont you agree?
Hell, i heard of one guy who just had a CAI and Torque Converter, who pulled a 13.4 ( i believe, im not totally sure, but it was killer time )
And whats a Torq. Con. run... $700? phh.. A rear tire for my bike cost half that.

Nowhere in this entire thread did I say, the LT1 is faster. That is simply not true.
I know the LS1 is the all out faster car, I almost bought one.

I love my Z though,
My girl loves how powerful it feels with so little effort.
Ease off me man, I know what I bought.

[Chris 96 WS6]

I'm aware you didn't say the LS1 was faster :)

Actually a good high stall converter will mean the car will flash ABOVE the 2400 tq peak...again making it near useless for tq to peak that low.

330 ft lbs @ 2400 rpm tq peak ...hp = tq x rpm / 5252

So hp at 2400 rpm is 150.

Move that up to 3000 rpm and you get 188hp. Throw in a converter that flashes to 3200 and you are going to haul azz vs. the first car with the 2400 rpm peak and a 2600 stall converter.

Personally I can't tell the difference between the LS1 and LT1 tq at highway speeds in overdrive. Would be worth it to me to give up 20 ft lbs to gain the top end.

[topendlt1]

I'm aware you didn't say the LS1 was faster :)
.

Lol!:)
I read that over a few times before I caught it!






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But besides the fact that Cinderella didn't put on her pretty red slippers, I'm sure she got the most bang for her buck.

:coffee: