End all of the LS1-LT1 debate..

[LT1-TA]

Ok... LS1... is by far a better motor. Hands down. There is nothing else to it. Get used to getting the smack down by LS1 cars. The internal parts are stronger. There is more of a aftermarket (well direct aftermarket. If you start converting normal SBC stuff into reverse flow cooling then the LTx will have a bigger aftermarket)


But if you give one person a ls1... and another person a LT1. Give them both $15000.... they will both build a motor of similar capabilities. But there is still a huge chance of the LS1 edging out the LT1 because of head technology (it would depend on what the person with the LT1 did for heads..)


If you buy a LT1 to be the fastest... you better have some money and pull that motor when you get home. You will have to do the entire bottom end. And to get the heads flowing like you would want you would have to get the neat Brodix 18* heads (the heads that dont need special valve train.. which is cool because they are 18*).. or some sort of headsthat flow in excess of 300 cfm on intake. Then you would have to get a normal SBC Intake and convert it to fuel injection. Then have a cam ground to get the lift up to where the headsf low and the duration on the exhaust long enough for the flow on the exhaust (basicly match the cam to the heads.. duh!). Then you either will need a lot of compression and nitrous or low compression and a ton of boost (from a turbo would probly be best). This would be the "cheapest" way to make the "fastest" LT1 in my humble opinon.

There is a guy on ls1tech with a LT1 with SBC2.2 Heads making 700+ hp... and that is before the 400 shot. This is becoming common. People are realizing the LT1 is jsut another smallblock chevy. Nothing special. And that they can build it like any other smallblock and make huge power... butthere are jsut those few things you have to overcome to make good power (such as reverse flow cooling).


THE LS1 IS SPECIAL... It is a completly new motor with great ignition... they have some of the best heads ever put on a stock pushrod motor. The port design and that they are 18*. It is lighter... stronger... revs better... only downside to the LS1 is sound and piston slap...


Basicly... LS1 is gods motor.

[Chris 96 WS6]

Moving to general tech as this isn't JUST LT1 related.

[topendlt1]

The LS1 is special alright. My buddies GTO makes a piston slap noise(55k), and its not even modded ( his girl hates it ). The jokes on me when we race though :(

[Chris 96 WS6]

I don't know why people care about piston slap. Of course its going to slap when its cold as the pistons expand when they heat up. You have to leave tolerances lose for cold starts because of it. That's just life with Hypereutectic pistons.

If it doesn't go away once its warmed up, then that's a problem. Hell you shouldn't be hammering on a car until its warmed up anyway.

[1970judge]

Piston slap means nothing as chris said. If it does after its heated up then yeah. And BTW correct me if im wrong but no one in that thread was arguing that lt1's were better. All us lt1 guys agreed with everyone. I just happen to like my exterior and interior and I like the motor better. Compare a bone stock lt1 to a bone stock ls1 mines deeper. Modded lt1 to a modded ls1 mine sounds better.:D

[topendlt1]

Well said, this is advice to everyone with a V-8 pushin good HP.
Let it warm up, I could never stress that enough.
You wont think its important until that little noise youve been hearin wont go away :eek:

and good point! LT1's can be loud, and i mean LOUD :) , and chicks love loud cars.
And thats the whole point right?

If there were no girls on earth, we'd all be sitten around getting high, drinkin beer and driving trucks!
( J/k :) )

[CamTom12]

5-6 min. after you hit normal operational water temp is a good rule of thumb. If you have an oil temp guage, that's the best way to go :)

[darrensls1]

Mine has no piston slap at all. Neither does my friends which is a 99 Z28. We were both lucky I guess :thumbsup: I do eat a quart of oil between oil changes though :mad:

[Firehawk 526]

No slap here, nor any oil loss (according to my catch can) and dip stick

60k miles and goin' strong! (Probably jinxed myself now) DOH!

[CamTom12]

No slap and no oil eaten here :thumbsup:

[NHRAMAN]

No slap and no oil eaten here :thumbsup:
:thumbsup: Me either..I bought it new..now over 100,000 miles on it. There is one thing I have done that is a little different...I have NEVER...and I mean that..driven the car BEFORE it has reached normal operating temperature..lots of people say it is not needed to warm up completely, but I don't mind waiting 5 minutes or so..car is garaged and it never gets much below 40 degrees here in the winter.......I don't know if piston slap and lack of any perceptible oil smoke has anything to do with driving away cold.....but I bet it doesn't hurt NOT doing it....... :P

[Chris 96 WS6]

Its actually supposed to be better for the car to warm up under a load...aka drive it cold. You just don't need to beat on a car cold.

[01Z]

Its actually supposed to be better for the car to warm up under a load...aka drive it cold. You just don't need to beat on a car cold.
This is what I have learned. As soon as the oil pressure is up the car goes into gear. The faster idle gets me out of the lot without touching the gas. Speaking of which, it improves the mileage. The quicker the car comes up to temperature the sooner I can quit shivering.

[Grims]

Debate? Anyone with an IQ over 90 would never say the LT1 is the better motor. Now, they might over play the small things it has to make them feel better; low end torque, "better" sound. Although, the LS1 is the better motor by a long shot.

Ecept for mine, mines special.

[CamTom12]

lol@Grims

[Firehawk 526]

Well is only makes sense that each generation should have better engine components. Called technology (lol), just as the LS7 is better than the LS1 or LS2. Then it'll be the LS9 better than the LS7, yadah, yadah, yadah!

It really shouldn't be a LS1 better than LT1 topic, but the point is we'll be comparing engines of future generations to current day models in the same manner. However, it is very interesting reading the LS1tech sticky on differences between the (2) engine models.

[Chris 96 WS6]

As long as there are LT1 owners with chips on their shoulders that they couldn't afford an LS1, there will be LS1 vs. LT1 threads.

Personally I had the choice between my current car and a '98 Z28...same price....I went with the LT1 because it was lower mileage and because it was a more "rare" WS6. This was back in '99 when we really didn't realize how much better the LS1 was.

If I had to do it over again I'd go LS1 and not think twice about it.

[Grims]

I couldn't afford the LS1 when I bought my car, now I have to much invested in it to sell it to get an LS1.

['94 Z28]

I agree with the progressive technology line of thought - 4 cylinder cars today are doing what factory V8's could only dream about just 10 years ago. I bought my '94 Z28 last month because it was in very good condition and low mileage (68k). I also chose to purchase a nice car outright rather than take on payments for my weekend toy. Each model has it's rightful place - who care's which one is 'better' or 'faster'... We all agree these cars are fun to drive, or else this site probably wouldn't exist ;)

[Fenster]

I went LS1 b/c it doesnt' have that god forsaken opti spark unit on it like the LT1. That shit gives me nightmares!!! LOL. I've been through too many opti swaps w/ too many people!!! haha. Chris how many have we done combined you think. 10-15? I know we have played w/ yours at least 2-3 times... Jeffs a few times... Steve's... its not cool man... NOT COOL. But at least we are down to like 3 hours start to finish!!! LOL

Obviously thats not the entire reason, but its a little chunk. I found the SS for a great price, decent miles, and its what I wanted. I looked at LT1 cars for a long time thinkin I couldn't afford a LS1 car... then I ended up just waiting until the LS1s came down in price until I could!!!

[Chris 96 WS6]

now I have to much invested in it to sell it to get an LS1.

Yep, same here.

[Firehawk 526]

Speaking of which, we had a meet this weekend, and wouldn't you know somebody was having issues w/Optispark....but the alternator location on the LS1 leaves alot to be desired........what a lousy place for an alternator.

On the bright side, at least you LT guys don't have those ugly coil packs.

[LT1-TA]

On the bright side, at least you LT guys don't have those ugly coil packs.


considering i may go to the ls1 ignition on my car... haha

[RedLT1Z]

whats a LS1 vs LT1 debate without mentioning reverse flow cooling. :dontknow:

[LT1-TA]

whats a LS1 vs LT1 debate without mentioning reverse flow cooling. :dontknow:


reverse flow cooling = hot spots in cylinder walls... but cool heads = less chance of detonation = more nitrous/boost :rockon: .

[Black93Z]

ok im with chris on this one, i have an LT1 and yeah it has its quirks, i havent found an LS1 that doesnt have its quirks here and there either. we all agree yeah the LS1 is better, we all agree that theyre fun cars to drive, LT1 or LS1. also i have too much time, money, and memories wrapped up in mine to sell it. by memories i think yall know what i mean. :D

[Ok4thGen]

How many people that actually race there lt1's or ls1's keep them stock?

i chose the lt1 over a ls1 for numerous reasons yes the ls1 is a better engine but i have love for the lt1's

What it all comes down to is who has more money to spend.

[95Formula]

i bought my lt1 car not because of 'low milage' (it has just under 140,000 miles on it...BUT IT STILL RUNS LIKE A CHAMP!) but because it was a friend's car and i got it for a good price and most importantly ITS WHAT I WANTED. but dont let that fool you. i will also in the near future be buying an ls1 car. possibly an ls2 car...possibly both. ive been really looking at the new gto's as of late. when i went home in january i test drove a brand new one. those things have some freakin power. and id love to get my hands on a collector's edition t/a. but i digress...i dont consider either one 'better'. of course one is faster than the other. and lighter. but come on, they are brothers. lt1 is the older, wiser brother. and the ls1 is the younger, going after everyone to prove himself brother. i like both. simple as that. and about the sound...its all in the cam. ive heard cammed ls1's that sound better than lt1s. only reason they sound so weak stock is the stock cam profile.
sorry for the lil rant.

[OrbitalChrisZ28]

saying people buy lt1s because they cant afford and ls1 is f'in retarted and completely and uneducated statement, I have plenty of money and I bought an lt1 because I love them, the sound, the powerband, the look...it may have stronger stock components but that doesnt make it a "better" than anything, just stronger components, its all a matter of your opinion, and if you race, theres plenty of lt1s that can tear ls1s apart so iono thats just my .02 have fun

[NJLT1SS]

I have a 97 SS that I purchased brand new in 98, and I wont get rid of the car for an LS1, as it has too much sentimental value to me. My brother has an 05 GTO M6. The car is a blast to drive, and keeps pullin till it hits the rev limiter, a lot longer than my SS would when it was stock (the SS is FAR from stock now). Before I bought the SS, I had an 89 GTA 350 TPI. When I gt rid of tht and got into my SS, I was like holy shit! The TPI was done before 5K RPM, and the LT1 was more than happy to go to 5500 and then some. Well, the SS has a built 396, AFR 210's, a 242 intake HR cam, 12 bolt, and god knows the rest. Its a blast to drive, and I will be going for a dyno tune soon to see what it puts down. Oh, and my engine builder just got a shipment from Edelbrock, and it appears that there is a set of Edelbrock/Chapman *15 heads in the shipment! I wonder where these heads are going to end up.........



Nick

[davesLT1]

Sorry to stick my nose into this, but i am pretty sure the 89 gta only came with a 3.8 liter, turbocharged, intercooled. Does this sound familiar? That is what the grand national came with. The reason i know this is my neighbor has a 86 G/N, and a original 89 gta t/a. That could be why your 97 ss is so much faster,V8 vs. V6... I also have a lt1 and dont want a ls1 car. To many people like the ls1 better and i understand, but i love the look of the lt1..... Just my opinion....

[LT1-TA]

Sorry to stick my nose into this, but i am pretty sure the 89 gta only came with a 3.8 liter, turbocharged, intercooled. Does this sound familiar? That is what the grand national came with. The reason i know this is my neighbor has a 86 G/N, and a original 89 gta t/a. That could be why your 97 ss is so much faster,V8 vs. V6... I also have a lt1 and dont want a ls1 car. To many people like the ls1 better and i understand, but i love the look of the lt1..... Just my opinion....

ok.. first thing im going t o say... is if the man couldn't tell a v6 from a v8 hewouldn't have been able to build a 396...

second.. my buddy has a GTA with a TPI 305.... only came wiht huh? I have never even seen a gta with the SAME motor as a GN... not to say they dont exist,... but they came with a hell of a lot more than you are stating..

Nicks

[davesLT1]

Homie, i'm not saying that he cant tell the difference, and maybe they do come with tpi engines, but if you do some more research,then youll see i'm correct..................

[davesLT1]

Please excuse my ignorance, the 89 gta indy 500 pace car edition is the gta with the 3.8 turbo, and gm did borrow the idea from the grand national. I seen a show on the history channel,it's called automobiles, it's on sunday mornings, and they stated that from the factory the 3.8 turbo was one of the fastest t/a's ever produced.Then came the infamous LS1..
And that my friend is a fact. Sorry i'm an idiot sometimes!!!!

[lockdun1]

Exactly one yeart ago i bought my 95' Z28 Convertable 50000 miles for $5500.One month later my friend bought the 2000(i think it was)SS whith100005
miles on for $15000.two days after he got it we raced i lost but check this in the next week i got my exhaust, my msd 6a, new tires and jvc haed unit and u know what he is still paying his off and i can still beat him.Also extream thanks to this site actualy the thing that closed the deal was a thread on how to race using the 4l60e so my .02 are so i had the extra cash and alot of fun in my lt1 and learned alot about cars form it.so thank u LT1.:cool:

[01Z]

Wow! Unless your 50k 95 was really blemmed you got a terrific deal and congratulations on that. On resale over time your friend with the SS has a valuable investment.

As for beating the LS1 with a few mods to your LT1, that is totally believable, particularly on the street; especially since the torque numbers are close. With excellent traction on your side, you have an advantage in the low rpms.

Your situation is the reason I have kept my 95. I have such little money invested that adding a CAI, catback, and nitrous makes for light weight spending on a $5000 car. With laying out that little initially, I am able to upgrade the differential, lighting and brakes. The 93-97 camaros are my favorite body style. The wide eyed, gaping mouth looking front end on my 01 wasn't one of the reasons I bought it. ;)

[lockdun1]

ONE OF THE THING THAT GOT ME WAS HE GOT A STICK AND HE DID NOT KNOW HOW TO DRIVE IT SO FIRST RUN I BLEW HIM OUT THE WATER BUT I DID NOT COUNT IT I TAUGHT HIM HOW TO DRIVE IT RIGHT AND HE KICKED MY ASS AND AS FOR THE 95 IT WAS IMACULET BEAUTIFULL. THANKS I DID I GET IT FROM A PRODUCER FROM NBC SO HE NEVER DROVE IT.:D

[SMURF69]

all this debate over ls1 and lt1 just be happy they are both v 8 and come in nice mean cars.

[revolutionary]

Compare dollar for dollar. The extra $2-5k for an ls1 car can easily net you a significant increase in power with an lt1. Personally I think the LT1 is better for longevity and in road racing applications the LT cars have fewer oiling problems. Call me crazy but I'd take an LT1 block convert some 18 degree heads to fit and put a good pan on the thing (extremely limited pan choices on the LS1) and roll out. The best way to take advantage of the LSx heads is to build a Ford windsor and bolt them on there with a custom intake - yes it can be done.

OK now everyone - DOGPILE ON DARYL!!!

[CamTom12]

Holy beaten dead horse, Batman!

:lol: