LS1/T56 Into '82 Berlinetta

[five7kid]

I haven't discussed this much, but the project is slowly progressing. I picked up the LS1/T56 in Sep '07 with intentions of putting it in Berlinetta #1, but couldn't bring myself to take apart that car. So, I picked up Berlinetta #2 in Oct '07. It had been mostly restored by the PO as a retirement project, then for some reason (I assume health) they donated it, which is how I picked it up (dog not included).

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/vbgarage/vbgarage-image-5114.jpg


The plan is for a full-creature comforts build (AC, PS, PB, PW, PL) with some spank. Sleeper, basically. The engine/trans came from a 2000 SS with 55k miles. It has or will get: Spohn conversion front mounts and Skulte tranny mount; 4th gen LS1 fuel tank, LS6 intake, LS7 clutch/flywheel; Hawks/Stainless Works LS1 3rd gen swap headers Jet-Hot coated; disk 7.625" 10-bolt beefed up with Sierra 4.10 gears & 28 spline axles with Eaton posi and support cover, welded axle tubes, G-Force ladder bar LCA (eliminates the torque arm); poly bushings everywhere; aftermarket gauge cluster with programmable speedo and fuel level, mechanical oil pressure.

Some progress pics:

Engine bay b/4 engine/trans - I had to notch the K-member for oil pan and AC compressor clearance:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/five7kid/DSC00227.jpg


Engine sitting in bay:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/five7kid/SittinPretty.jpg

Headers installed:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/five7kid/DSC00278.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/five7kid/DSC00279.jpg


Hope to have it running by the end of the month. Still need to do wiring, route fuel line, install subframe connectors, figure out air inlet ducting, get radiator fans and mounts.

[6speedtransam]

damn that is going to be badass when you r dont with that. YOu will be smoiing everybody in that v6 looking camaro haha. I wish i had the money to pic up a ls1 swap

[laux06]

badass project man

[five7kid]

Admittedly it hasn't been cheap. It all started when my wife asked, "What would be your dream car?" Vette, GTO, total remake of the '57 all came to mind. I started settling on an '05 or '06 GTO, but couldn't really get there. So, a 3rd gen that would do whatever a GTO could do became the new goal, and this is where it's gone.

I haven't done anything to the engine other than the LS6 intake and headers. The PCM has been reprogrammed for my gears and tires, and has had stuff like EGR, A.I.R., evap, fuel tank pressure, and VATS deleted.

I haven't had a stick shift car in 10 years (and that was a 4 cyl Ford Fairmont). There is a stick shift class at the track that I've wanted to get in on, hopefully this will be the ticket.

And, it should be fun driving around in a "secretary car" that'll embarrass a whole bunch of "sports cars".

[6speedtransam]

Admittedly it hasn't been cheap. It all started when my wife asked, "What would be your dream car?" Vette, GTO, total remake of the '57 all came to mind. I started settling on an '05 or '06 GTO, but couldn't really get there. So, a 3rd gen that would do whatever a GTO could do became the new goal, and this is where it's gone.

I haven't done anything to the engine other than the LS6 intake and headers. The PCM has been reprogrammed for my gears and tires, and has had stuff like EGR, A.I.R., evap, fuel tank pressure, and VATS deleted.

I haven't had a stick shift car in 10 years (and that was a 4 cyl Ford Fairmont). There is a stick shift class at the track that I've wanted to get in on, hopefully this will be the ticket.

And, it should be fun driving around in a "secretary car" that'll embarrass a whole bunch of "sports cars".

haha yea im sure it wasnt cheap and you should smoke gt0s with that i smoked many of gtos with my hondas there no that fast.

[Chris 96 WS6]

This looks like a fun project. Keep us updated please!

My first car (not including the hand-me down '77 Cutlass I drove during my 16th year) was an '85 Camaro LG4. It was bright red on black cloth with T-tops and the 14" steel wheels.

I still miss that car. If I get into another project, it will be to find a car like my '85 and do what you're doing.

[five7kid]

I forgot to mention UMI subframe connectors.

I have another full set of Berlinetta 14" alloy rims. Those things are super light. I run Hoosier Quick Time Pro DOT's on those rims on the other Camaro at the track - weigh less mounted than a lot of street radials weigh unmounted. It would be sweet if I could run those tires on the back when at the track.

Also have some later IROC rims that I've painted the inserts and spokes gold for the Berlinetta color theme, with GS-C's on them. Makes the car look pretty tough, but detracts from the sleeper aspect. Also a lot fatter tire for the front than the 14's are.

On a side note, does anyone have a clue what those rims in the first pic are? They don't have any markings on them except the size. I kind of like them, and wouldn't mind having another pair to mount slicks on. They're 15x7's. I've asked around, someone thought Enke(?), but I couldn't find anything more about them.

[five7kid]

The ladder bar conversion. The LCA is replaced by a new bar. Tabs welded to the axle tube.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/five7kid/OverallView.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/five7kid/BottomView.jpg

Torque arm? We don't need no stinkin' torque arm!

That's an '83 disk brake rear end. The right side caliper mounts to the front of the axle. The park brake weight hit the ladder bar. I saw PBR brakes with the calipers to the rear, so I picked up a set - turns out they were LS1 PBR's that also mount to the front of the axle, and interfered with the ladder bar even worse! So, I went back to the '83 disk system, chopped off the weight on the right side caliper - I'll add an extra spring to the return, hope it works. Unless I can pick up some late 3rd gen or early 4th gen PBR disks (but I'm not going to try very hard unless these brakes simply don't work).

[ShowNoMercy]

Thats pretty friggen sweet!

Can you explain why the ladder bars are better than a torque arm?

[Chris 96 WS6]

I guess I don't understand why you'd want to ditch the tq arm. With the ladder bar conversion you've seriously shortened the lever acting against the axle's urge to twist under acceleration. What's the benefit? And how certain are you the LCA mounting points on the body are sturdy enough to stand up to repeated hard launches without wrinkling, etc?

Personally I always thought the tq arm was much maligned and misunderstood. There's got to be a reason the new mustangs ditched the old 4-link in favor of a Tq arm arrangement.

[five7kid]

Primary benefit is there's more space in the tunnel for exhaust. . . ;)

The LCA mounting points are plenty sturdy. They'll be reinforced by the subframe connectors.

The torque arm keeps the axle from twisting. It does that well. But, there's one other function needed, and that's planting the tires. To do that, you need downward force on the axle - like weight. But, think about what pushes down on the axle - the springs. What are the springs doing? Pushing up on the body. What if you have the rotating action of the axle pushing up on the body as well? Same result, pushes down on the tires. But, the torque arm pushes up on the body up by the transmission - not a bad idea since there is a lot of weight up there to push up against, but doing it that way doesn't push down much on the axle. By pushing up on the body back where the LCA mounts, you push down on the axle a lot more. Hence, better traction under acceleration. In addition, the force is on each wheel, rather than centered, which when combined with engine torque twist, can unload one tire.

The same principle of pushing up on the body is why LCA relocation brackets work - turn some of the axle force into upward force on the body. The ladder bars turn more of that axle twist into upward force to the body, meaning more downward force on the tires.

Make sense? Basic high school physics free body diagram stuff.

[five7kid]

Wow, it's been a year since I updated this. :eek:

Progress has been very slow. I spent more time working on other vehicles last year than normal, which basically put this project on hold from the end of March to November. I've had a little more time lately, but still have a good week's work or more left before I can expect the battery to be put back in and hooked up.

The engine compartment is pretty much complete except for the radiator/hoses/overflow/fans, air inlet/filter/MAF/IAT, and power steering cooler and lines.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/five7kid/LS1%20T56/Mar110Status.jpg

When you're keeping AC in a 3rd gen swap, there isn't a very good place to put the PCM. So, I made a pass-through in the firewall and will mount the PCM in the interior.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/five7kid/PCMPassthroughHole.jpg

I found some U-shaped door edge guard at NAPA to protect the wires from the hole edges.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/five7kid/PassthroughHolew-Antichafe.jpg

With heat tape around the bundle. In hindsight, I should have stripped the bundle of unused wires, and things that were going from the PCM connectors into the interior, anyway.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/five7kid/PCMHarnessFinished.jpg

The harness is barely visible (if you know what you're looking for).

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/five7kid/LS1%20T56/PassengerSide.jpg

[five7kid]

I didn't get the fuse/relay box from the donor car, and the '82 doesn't have enough circuits to support what's needed (fuel pump, radiator fans, etc.). I found a swap box on eBay. All wires well marked, good instructions, easy to hook up (had a couple of circuits I'm not using now, but may in the future, so I coiled and stowed them). The air inlet filter will go right above this box.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/five7kid/LS1%20T56/Fuse-RelayBox.jpg

Among all of the complicated things this swap has involved (conversion from auto to T56, drum to disk rear, ladder bars, etc.), the dash is right up there. I needed programmable fuel gauge and speedometer, so I went with an aftermarket panel I found on tech. Still needed to get a different fuel gauge and speedometer, so they don't match the rest of the gauges (may convert to all Auto Meter over time, but the Equus units will do for now).

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/five7kid/LS1%20T56/InstrumentClusterFace.jpg

This represents almost a full weekend's worth of garage time, including identifying the original circuits that I will be using from the car.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/five7kid/LS1%20T56/InstrumentClusterBack.jpg

I don't have a picture of what the interior looks like right now. Suffice it to say it ain't pretty.

[five7kid]

I kept hearing horror stories about clutch fluid overheating problems with 4th gen T56's. The "natural" routing of the clutch line put it right next to the headers. Even though my headers are ceramic coated, that didn't appeal much to me. (Sorry I don't have a better picture)

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/five7kid/DSC00301.jpg

As it was, I moved the fuel/brake lines from the side of the frame to the bottom to reduce heat exposure.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/five7kid/DSC00297.jpg

To resolve the clutch line issue, I routed it back into the passenger compartment, under the carpet, and back to the transmission tunnel. (The grommets have been sealed with RTV. I also punched another hole in the tunnel for bleeding purposes. Should have done the remote bleeder before the engine/trans went into the car. :banghead:)

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/five7kid/DSC00294.jpg

Much reduced heat exposure.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/five7kid/DSC00296.jpg

[ShowNoMercy]

That dash looks good man, lots of engine bay room too, lucky!

What does the interior look like, and or have any plans for it?

[five7kid]

The interior is pretty much redone stock. The seat fabric isn't something that was available from the factory, but it looks like it could have been. I have some photos somewhere, I'll try to post later (you can kind of see it in the first photo). I don't plan on doing anything different with it.

Engine bay room is a little deceiving. When everything gets installed, including the hood, it starts getting a lot more crowded. But, nothing like being under the cowl like a 4th gen.

[five7kid]

If you have a sharp eye (really sharp), you may have noticed that the coils aren't the same left and right. Reason is the LS1 coils get in the way of the HVAC housing, which truck coils solve. So, I traded my LS1 coils for truck coils. Then I found out truck coils get in the way of the fuel supply fitting on the passenger side. Since then, I picked up another LS1/4L60E for Berlinetta #1, so, truck coils on the passenger side, LS1 coils on the driver side.

[five7kid]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/five7kid/LS1%20T56/th_BabysFirstCry.jpg (http://s9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/five7kid/LS1%20T56/?action=view&current=BabysFirstCry.flv)

That was actually the 5th try. I had my wife's digital camera all set up to catch the first one, I thought. Turns out video is a different button than still pics, and I only knew about the still button (she wasn't home at the time). I got out an older camera and finally got this to work. When she got home later, I took her out to the garage under the guise of showing her the instrument panel - without saying anything, I pushed in the clutch and turned the key to "start" - she said later she expected me to start it up when she went out there, but it still gave her "a fright" when it fired.

I bled the clutch last night. Still have the brakes to do. And get the radiator and PS hooked up, mount the air intake and IAT sensor, plus interior stuff like set the tach for the proper input signal, fix a problem with the gauge lights, install the console, etc. Mount the tires and get it off of the jack stands for the first time since Feb '08. Then get exhaust done.

But, at least now I know it runs!

[five7kid]

Oh, yeah, install the subframe connectors (I thought there was something else I had to do before it came off of the jack stands :twak: ).

[Chris 96 WS6]

I absolutely LOVE this project. Makes me want to go find a red '85 coupe (just like the one I had in high school).

[chrys95]

wow man, such a cool project. I cant wait to see it all finished!

[five7kid]

I cant wait to see it all finished!
You and me both!

[five7kid]

Speaking of clutch bleeding, I used the Mityvac method. Took a little doing to get my brain wrapped around that concept, but it's a lot easier than messing with the bleeder valve.

The only remaining "concern" I have is the possibility of a bubble at the top of the slave cylinder, since the bleeder is above the pressure line, and the vacuum is pulling on the pressure line using this method. The pedal seems nice and firm (and smooth), and I started the engine up again and ran through the gears. No problem engaging it in any gear, even when the park brake was on. So, I'm hoping it's okay.

[five7kid]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/five7kid/DSC00297.jpg


I also moved those blue and red wires to the interior. Did I mention what they are for? Why, the trailer brakes, of course!

Last night I got the radiator & hoses mounted, including the power steering cooler. The lower radiator hose was a make-work deal, actually a trimmed Ford 460 truck part. The upper radiator support and radiator fans are 3rd gen items. With all that mounted, the PS cooler sits pretty on the 3rd gen hose support built into the upper support. But, like I said earlier, things start getting tight when you get everything installed. As it is, I need more air intake parts to get past the PS cooler and pulley, and put the filter into the corner (where cool air is available). Not sure how long those ordered parts are going to take to get here, so it's probably at least another week before it gets ready to roll under its own power.

The list of things left to do is still a bit daunting:

Complete the air inlet system, including connecting the IAT.
Install the overflow bottle, and route the steam line to the radiator.
Bleed brakes.
Install subframe connectors.
Fix whatever is wrong with the instrument panel lights (everything works but the gauge backlights).
Install lower shifter boot (won't be delivered for a couple of weeks), console, upper shifter boot, HVAC controls, radio. Finish mounting PCM behind the dash and trim/stow unused wiring. Install kick panels.
Install hood.
Install exhaust - I talked to the shop I'm going to have do that yesterday, I think we have a workable plan there. Ever heard or heard of Aero Turbine mufflers?