HP estimate and gains?

[Patrol32]

Guys...I have questions for you all, I have a Trans Am '92 (5.7ltr, 350ci). It's almost a bone stock daily driver, and I have a list of goodies to put on as I feel it's kinda down on power.

1. K&N Engineering E-0890 Racing Filter.
2. Holley Throttle Body 112-506.
3. BBK Performance 1714 "fuel Regulator"
4. SLP SLE-20004 Intake Manifold Runners.
5. Flowtech muffler "big-50162flt"

items in www.summitracing.com (http://www.summitracing.com)

1. The question is, what's my horsepower gains or 1/4 mile seconds drop?
2. Is it worth it almost 900$ ?
3. Any other suggestions?

[Chris 96 WS6]

The throttle body is a big waste of money at the HP level you are at now. The TPI intake is a much bigger restriction than the throttle body right now.

The runners will help but it is the intake base plate that is the biggest bottleneck.

You need headers, none of the things you've listed are going to add any substantial HP. You might have 20hp there total, and for $900 I think that's a poor investment.

Focus on how to improve the air-in and air-out of the engine. You should be looking at things like headers, 1.6 ratio roller rockers, cams, and the intake base plate.

[five7kid]

No, that's not really enough. You'll need a cam, too.

An LS1 would be there without any modifications.

[five7kid]

You don't need a "kit". Edelbrock cams are junk, anyway.

Your car has a roller lifter cam. You can reuse the lifters without any problem, as long as the car has had regular oil changes and the rollers aren't trashed.

Check out the XFI or XR computer compatible cams from Comp. As said in your other thread, the throttle body isn't necessary (the Ram Jet 502 makes 502 HP with a 48mm throttle body). Add headers to your list - the Hedman dual cat headers are a good choice. A Magnaflow cat-back would be a better choice than just the Flowtech muffler. I have no love lost for K&N filters - an expensive way to let more dirt into your engine.

[Patrol32]

Thanks a lot five7kid
I take your advice seriuosly

How about this new list??


BBK Performance 1714 "fuel Regulator" $63.95
Edelbrock 3860 Hi-Flo base plate $404.95
Hooker Headers 2138HKR $439.95
Comp 280XFI HR13: Cam & Kit $898.7
MagnaFlow 14267 muffler $133.95
MSD Blaster GM Coils MSD-8226 (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MSD-8226&N=700+400122+4294924927+4294908153+4294840140+115&autoview=sku) $47.1
MSD Spark Plug Wire Sets MSD-3136 (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MSD-3136&N=700+400122+4294924927+4294908153+4294840140+115&autoview=sku) $68.6
YZF 6 speed manual tranny (not now though)

Total = $2057.2


Cam kit designed for Strong mid-range and top end. Will require headers gears & stall speed. Strong Idle.RPM range 2000-6000, bit worid about where it says "Requires machining on cylinder heads", not quite sure what does that mean.

Kit includes: Cam & lifter, Timing set, Rocker arms 1.6 ratio, push rods, valve springs, retainers, valve locks valve seals and distributor gears.

Kinda missing the air filter on my new list, had a bad feedback from buddies that K&N filters would let shit in your chambers

I think I will go step by step as it does cost freaking lots of bills, still not quite sure if worth it, my hp gains?, and 1/4 mile seconds drop?, or beating LS1 dream?

Might forget about cam kit for now and concentrate on other stuff on list first and see

[Chris 96 WS6]

Patrol 32, please stop hijacking somebody elses thread for your questions. That's what a NEW thread is for. This is the second time I've moved your posts out of somebody else's thread.

[Chris 96 WS6]

You can try some of our sponsors (www.tpiparts.net comes to mind) for these parts, many can ship internationally for a fee. Otherwise you could try summitracing.com or jegs.com, they probably have the widest selection of TPI stuff.

[Patrol32]

Chris96 WS6, five 7kid thanks for both, and I'm sorry for the mess, I'm not quite familiar with this thread business. Anyways, As I decided to go for Comp cams, I will start with the shaft, springs, and a 1.6 rocker, reuse the lifters and everything else would this be good enough? Any machining required on head and what kind?

* as posted above, I will go Hooker headers, but Why full length, instead of just a pair of shorties? how much potential or holding pressure difference?

[five7kid]

Long tube headers kill ground clearance in 3rd gens. There just isn't any good way to route the exhaust without going under things other than the stock routing.

Hedman makes dual cat headers that would work great in your application. Ceramic coated are more expensive but will reduce under-hood heat and last much, much longer than painted.

1.6 rockers should only be used with a cam designed for them. About the only cam I know of that is designed for them is the LT4 Hot Cam.

If you get over about .48" lift, most stock heads have to have the valve guides cut down to provide the necessary clearance. Having the guides cut for positive-type valve stem seals will give you better seals and provide the necessary clearance.

[steveo]

take it from someone that's played a lot with tpi engines.. especially speed density based, they are the most difficult and frustrating thing to get to respond to modifications

the base plate is a bit restrictive, that's a limiting factor (probably ~350hp limiting, that's as far as i could ever push it anyways), but being designed for low end torque really makes them harsh to deal with in terms of cams etc

problem is the runners are too freaking long, that's why it has really nice low end balls, but performance gains from porting and cams is generally done up top of the rpm range, and the tpi stuff just falls flat on its ass no matter what you do

another problem is your ECM. the 91-92 engines are speed density based and if you do much more than air filters and exhaust, you're going to have to get it tuned or it'll barely run.

i did 1.6 roller rockers on a '91 350 and it wouldn't even idle until it was tuned, and the gain was pathetic

i'm not saying don't modify it, but do intake and exhaust and leave it at that, otherwise you're in for a lot of cash, and only the most obsessive tpi freaks go down that road (not that there's anything wrong with that)

the stock exhaust is very restrictive, do some affordable headers and a catback, and just smack a k&n cone on the throttle body, and you'll probably be pretty happy with the engine on the street

[Patrol32]

that's rich with information, thanks Steveo - five7kid, Ok I will go short tubes, 1 5/8", K&N on the TB and a magnaflow, ofcourse with Edelbrock intake base plate, that's the plan. I hate it when a stock '99 Maxima keeps up with my Trans Am, cause F-bodies look legendary, they should perform as well. If I don't get at least 80hp over stock I will drop this idea altogether, and might go LS1 in future.

================================================== ===============
F-Bodies 3rd Gen Rules

[steveo]

Ok I will go short tubes, 1 5/8", K&N on the TB and a magnaflow, ofcourse with Edelbrock intake base plate, that's the plan. I hate it when a stock '99 Maxima keeps up with my Trans Am, cause F-bodies look legendary, they should perform as well. If I don't get at least 80hp over stock I will drop this idea altogether, and might go LS1 in future.

getting an 80 hp gain out of that engine is going to be very difficult

totally a realistic goal, but huge bucks and lots of time and experimentation

unless you're a genious, the money you will spend getting 80hp out of that L98.. just save it and buy a used GENII or III for swap

[five7kid]

that's rich with information, thanks Steveo - five7kid, Ok I will go short tubes, 1 5/8", K&N on the TB and a magnaflow, ofcourse with Edelbrock intake base plate, that's the plan.
The base isn't enough. The stock runners, as stated, are long for low-RPM torque (butt-dyno sales), which kills anything the new cam would produce. You need different runners as well.

Rather than trying to upgrade the TPI hardware, replace it. Take a look at the Holley/Weiand Stealth Ram - doesn't cost any more than the Edelbrock base, and a lot less than base and runners. It'll easily support 400 HP. Much better choice than any other TPI option.

[Patrol32]

Guys, look at this dream kit http://www.holley.com/81404001.asp (http://www.holley.com/81404001.asp), I don't if this would fit bolt in with my TPI, five7kid I was searching for the stuff you adviced, but no chance, may you help me with link, please...I think you're right, updating the hardware of TPI gives me stomach pain. I would rather go complete fuel injection Stealthe Ram kit, or drop in LS1 for good.
Steveo right spot on, TPI head and intake design is hopeless, I had that feeling too, however, I had to ask experience guys like yourself, five7kid, usetaboost and Chris96
Look at this beast and let me know what you think, http://blog.cardomain.com/blog/2008/11/1750-horsepower.html (http://blog.cardomain.com/blog/2008/11/1750-horsepower.html)

heheheheh, that would be sick

[five7kid]

Link for the Stealth Ram intake:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=WND%2D7540&N=700+4294925239+4294908216+4294839079+4294822100+ 400053+115&autoview=sku

[alpine247]

if u gonna dump all this money trying to make 300whp i would do a swap.an LT1 swaps is getting cheap and u can find them anywhere now with low miles.pretty much all a lt1 needs is a cam,headers maybe port the intake and heads and u should be at 300hp or near it or hell Ls1?

trust me getting 300whp out of a Tpi is hard u have to dump alot of money in it.there good for tq that it...

[Patrol32]

Found 2 LS1 engines, this afternoon, came out from 2 Lumina SS '02 & '04, or what you guys call Pontiac GTO. The engines were for sale for around $1170, approximately 320hp, however this is without the harness, computer, and auto transmission. I'm thinking of taking it and mate it with a manual 6 speed. One more thing bothers me, is I'm not quite sure how difficult is the conversion on my 1992 Trans AM..any posts

[alpine247]

u may want to find a engine with the ecm& harness it will save u alot...

but a website that have all the parts u need to do the conversion
http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/ls1conversionparts_1.aspx

[Patrol32]

Thanks alpine247, well, I've been reading and browsing alot these days, mostly through thirdgen.org and buddies on cardomain.com, came up with that it's a self decision, wether to go for a swap or mod the SBC, It all sums up at the end with what goals you are heading to. LS1 ofcourse is better tech, lighter weight more potential but everything has it's price, TPI/L98 is old, heavier, thirsty, noisy and you name it, however it's quite capabale of delivering 350hp-400hp without a stroker kit, and with not big bucks as well...umm ofcourse there is this annoying low end torque which kills power early on the line, but that can be solved as well. Go short tubes and you will be fine. I also note that older 3 gens buddies have higher tendency to go LS1 than later ones. There chats here and there about nostalgia, I don't see that nostalgia can have big effect. maybe that's just me.


Summary:

1. If 350hp is no good for you, and you have the money and the will, then go LS1.

Thanks five7kid for schooling me, sorry for diverting from thread subject, there will be more questions related to HP gains posted by my self soon

[Patrol32]

Guys, I know that Stealth Ram/Vortech heads is a great combo, could deliver well over 350 hp easily, but I'm bit worried with cast iron on Vortech heads being sick heavy, why would any of you go Vortech rather tha Dart aluminium or AFR 195 aluminium, cfm values?, I've read on AFR's site (14hp over Vortech heads)....ummmm, well, wait to hear from you

[alpine247]

anything is possibly im a member of ThirdGen.org too.i had a 88 iroc-z with the L98 with the 700r4 complete bolt on.port&polish heads, holley ram intake,roller rocker's,hot cam,shorty's headers ect ect only put 298whp 341tq maybe if i sprayed it but never got around to it...

[Patrol32]

ummm, 298 is bad, how ever you might have lost some hp somewhere..look at this http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/56858_tpi_intake_vortec_head/index.html
or perhaps this guy here http://www.cardomain.com/ride/781816 , and he did mention that his car is in the 500hp range with the juice for good measure, perhaps you should have gone with a set of AFRs rather than port n polish, anyways, how you like your 4th gen? don't you beat your self for 88 iroc-z

[alpine247]

yeah 298 was bad but probably because of the trans.dyno numbers really dont mean nothing at all it's just something to brag about.

but yeah i miss my baby and would of still have it if that bastard didnt ran a stop light..im going to post a pic hope u dont mind its sexy so u shouldnt lol...

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g83/alpine247/IMG_0482-3.jpg

[Patrol32]

I like 4th gens, I drove a Camaro 1998 I guess, LS1, auto tranny, I tried to torture it a little bit, and sucker was pumping a lot of adrenaline through my blood system, it was freakin lunatic ridiculously powerful, a lot of fun too...yeah would love to see pics of your old IROC, yeah please post..!! as for my GTA, I think I will go SR/AFR 195 combo, I hope I will be getting some 350hp, then will try to save a little bit for a procharger.. will see how it goes

[Patrol32]

look at this http://stealthram.com/index.html

[Patrol32]

Man, nice F-body there, one of the best I've seen, that red is killer man, I will try to post a pic of my bird, but dunno how to do it ;), maybe you can help me in the private

[Patrol32]

Performance Items Price Horsepower (standard car HP calculated, my GTA I assume it's 200hp now, it's 245hp when it was new), and assume that all your injectors......... etc etc are alright

Look at prices in Blue & HP gains in Red

BBK Performance 1714 "fuel Regulator" 36.95 0
Weiand WND-7540* 319.95 30
Hooker Headers 2055HKR* 459.95 7.5
MagnaFlow 14267 muffler** 133.95 7.5
AFR 180 cc Cylinder Heads AFR-0918* 1579.39 85
MSD Blaster GM Coils MSD-8226** 47.1 0
MSD Spark Plug Wire Sets MSD-3136*** 68.6 0
K&N Cone Air filter KNN-57-0156* 131.95 8
Fidanza Flywheels FIZ-198531 364.88 15
COMP Cams CCA-GK12-600-8 879.95 45
Edelbrock Fuel Pumps EDL-17933 146.95 5
VENOM 400 Modules VNM-V45-131 (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=VNM%2DV45%2D131&N=700+4294908153+4294907958+4294924927+4294840140+ 4294925143+4294839059+115&autoview=sku) 299.95 15



Total price $4,470

Total Horse Power 418

A crate engine, EFI, 350ci/ 435hp-435trq in ATK High Performance costs $5781, or convert to LS1...conversion costs $8500