Camaros are better than Firebirds

[Chris 96 WS6]

Not really, but a good excuse to christen this forum! :D

[badjuju342]

I'd say the 'bird is a more refined car with more creature comforts while the Camaro is a more raw out and out brute. The superior car is whichever one you want. They both rule!

[IkilldUncleBen]

it depends, i like the 1st-3rd gen camaro's better but the 4th gen WS6 bird's look way better IMO

[johntom]

i like how the newer trans ams have the cutouts in the bumper for the tips as opposed to just having them hang there below the bumper like the camaro

[Chris 96 WS6]

I am actually a Chevy/Camaro guy at heart....I owned two different thirdgen Camaro's before I bought my current car. It was just sort of circumstance that I ended up with a Firebird.

[chuck]

Having owned both LT1 and LS1 Camaro's and Firebirds (one of each), I will say that the LS1 Firebird is the premier fourthgen. The seats are light years better, as is the rest of the interior.

Outside that, assuming the same engine they are the same car.

[loudmouthzls1]

ive always liked the camaro more cause it seems so sleek and sexy :p

[Vendetta]

I've always liked the Camaro better. I'm not quite sure why. Hopefully I'm about to buy my third one this weekend.

[Phoenix57]

i like the design of the LS1 T/A as far as exterior and interior better. ive always liked T/As, every generation

[badjuju342]

Welcome to the site Phoenix! Glad to see you made it over here and you go on the Camaro purchase ,Jon!

[camarogrrrl]

i like the camaros better but im very fond of the firebirds front end it gives it a very mean look

[baddogz28]

I like both, but the camaro looks more simple. I like simple, purpose built, with fewer swoopy exterior bits.

[Knyghtmare]

The Camaro is just so flat out meaner and a more aggressive car... When you think of Camaro you just think all Muscle!

When I think Firebird I thinki muscle car, but more of a kind of girly muscle car... no offese...

[F-Bobby]

Trans ams > camaros any day of the week for the 3rd and 4th gens, 1st and 2nd i have to go with the maros, i dunno what pontiac was thinking but all of the 2nd gen birds are just UGLY and the 1st gen camaros have a special place in my heart.

p.s. Chevelles > ALL

[camarogrrrl]

p.s. Chevelles > ALL


:withstupi

[Red Devil]

Trans ams > camaros any day of the week for the 3rd and 4th gens, 1st and 2nd i have to go with the maros...

I'd have to agree up to that point. The Pontiacs always seem more refined... and the 3rd gen Camaro was just too spartan inside.

[F-Bobby]

I'd have to agree up to that point. The Pontiacs always seem more refined... and the 3rd gen Camaro was just too spartan inside.

the thign i really hated about the 3rd gen maros is the fact that you need a T-5 torx to take any part of the interior apart. It was ****ing retarded.

[Vendetta]

I'd have to agree up to that point. The Pontiacs always seem more refined... and the 3rd gen Camaro was just too spartan inside.

"Refined" and "F-Body" don't belong in the same sentence.

[loudmouthzls1]

"Refined" and "F-Body" don't belong in the same sentence.
:withstupi

[Red Devil]

Are you guys familiar with the word 'contextually'? :finger: English - learn it. ;)

[Vendetta]

Are you guys familiar with the word 'contextually'? :finger: English - learn it. ;)

Sure, an F-Body can be described as refined... when referring to things such as a golf cart, or a quad. Or maybe a baby stroller.

[LS13RDGEN]

LS1 TA much better looking than LS1 Camaro
LT1 TA not as good looking as LT1 Camaro

[F-Bobby]

:withstupi

yeah compared to what, obviously its not gonna ride like a Benz, cause its not designed to. But if you compare it to the older f-bodies, the new trans am is extremely refined. very comfy seats, very well laid out interior, 4 god damn cup holders. what more do you want?!

[loudmouthzls1]

:dontknow: do u really need 4 cup holders in your sports car

[cb94ta]

I gotta go with the bird, nothing says ass whoopin' like an ls1 ws6, although my z looks a hell of a lot meaner than my TA, maybe it's the nitrous smiling at me from under the hood though.......

[cb94ta]

LS1 TA much better looking than LS1 Camaro
LT1 TA not as good looking as LT1 Camaro
perfectly put.

[TheRoad64]

Depends on what you want. Writing this thread took about eight minutes because I honestly can't decide. I love em all.

But...give me a Firebird because I like the way the nose looks.

[Acid Phreak]

3rd Gen
Trans Am = Camaro

LT1
Camaro > Trans Am

LS1
Trans Am > Camaro

IMO

[Iroc313]

they are both awsome they make about the same power but In looks I'd go with T/A but If I were going to buy one I'd buy a camaro

[infinitebird]

I've always preferred the look of the Firebirds better but Camaros are cool too. I also like the LT1 camaro look a lot more than the LS1 style.

[Iroc313]

Its a matter of opinion people like what they like :dontknow:

[Enthusiast]

I think the Firebirds have the 4th-Gens hands down. I mean theres something for everyone. The Lt1 WS6 is pure angular bliss and the ls1 ws6 in the automotive world is the equivalent of heidi klum in the modeling word very curvy and sexy. Third Gen Id give it to the camaro. 2nd. Id give it to the Firebirds. 1st is hard. I own a 69 firebird myself with the 350 h.o. so they have a soft place in my heart but they dont have near the following as the 1st gen camaro.

[gettinthere]

I'm a Camaro guy, but I was once told this and I kinda like it.

This applies to LS1 cars:

The SS looks like it could kick your ass if it wanted to. The WS6 looks like it's on its way to do it.

[1970judge]

Ive heard that but being a camaro guy i switch it lol.

[Iroc313]

I would choose camaro over firebird But thats just me I don't hate firebirds or anything

[NOSTYLS1]

This applies to LS1 cars:
The SS looks like it could kick your ass if it wanted to. The WS6 looks like it's on its way to do it.[/QUOTE]
:withstupi :thumbsup:

[02lilredSS]

Have had both...and like them equally. Hopefully always keep my '02 35th SS, but would luv to add the '02 WS6 Chix Scratch soon, very soon!

Minor thing, but I liked my side view mirror adjuster better on my bird. The little stick thing on my Camaro is a lil weird...

[Bawls]

All i know is, 93-97 formula = teh barf.

[SlowPurpleLT1]

All i know is, 93-97 formula = teh barf.

bwahahaa im with ya on that one... im a camaro guy..... only f-body ill ever own is a camaro... but gotta give the trans am some credit... they did have a bad ass looking car when it was done (ls1)

[mach83]

Both are awesome cars. I always liked Firebirds design better. Especially 3rd and 4th generation. Fourth generation just looks "mean"

[musclemac05]

I believe that WS6 has better interior, comfort than the Camaro However, I think the looks of T/A is not much cooler than the Camaro. Camaro has much more sexy sleek looks. I dislike the facts T/A, WS6 they have big nose scoops, and the rear end light is too wide. Camaro has more sporty looks than the T/A, WS6. I choose Camaro...

[Vendetta]

I like both, but I've owned two Camaros and it'd be weird to drive a Firebird I think.

[gettinthere]

Personally I like the lay out of the LS1 Camaro interior better. I think it looks "cleaner".

[Jaberwaki]

TA's look better launching.... that is all ;)

[gettinthere]

TA's look better launching.... that is all ;)


I can't argue with you on that one. Especially a black WS6.

[musclemac05]

Thanks Chirs for clarifying that the 93' Camaro are the last of 3rd Generation, and 94'-02 are the 4th Generation. Even though my Camaro was the last year GM made the LT1 motors before using the new prototype LS1 motor for the 98' to 02' Camaros

[camarojoe1991]

I can't really say because I've never been in an Fbody, but I think the Camaro is better.

[etex95]

i like my camaro but the birds do look good

[Transamman25]

Umm Camaro is brute power ?? when did this happen ?? i mean show me one camaro that came with the 455 OLDS Rocket .. 455 SD Pontiac ?? i mean ... come on Trans Am's rule the road with styling and power .. Bow down bowties to the mighty power of the Pontiac .. lol , that aughta russel some feather's .. lets see the response huh Chris ?

[Firehawk 526]

GOD's F-body Bible clearly states 4th gen T/A are da chit!

....OK, maybe I paraphrased and stretched the truth just a little (lol)

[LT1-TA]

Pontiac has always went the extra mile... But the camaro is the classic

[Transamman25]

just so ya know ya never saw a camaro roll out the factory with a 455 ... fuel for thought fellas T/A is style and performance .. hey Chris when are we all gonna get together do a poker run or even a mini power tour that cant be screwed up by huge sponsors and crappy rules like .. you have to drive yer own ride -- i know a couple of bad cars that dont go just cuz the owner can only be at one place at a time .. justa idea --- besides it could settle the contraversy each year .. who has the baddest ride on the site - not to mention good excuse to drink beer and have a lil fellowship

[CamaroJake]

I've had a 3rd gen camaro and a 3rd gen firebird... I cant really decide on one, I liked the camaro's looks more but my firebird's orange cluster was awesome... either way they had chevy under the hood :cool:

[fbodyhp]

im on my 4th ta,00ws6 ive had every body style except the 68 style,all and all,both are two of the most badd ass cars on the road,i just think there is a more agresive tougher look from the ta,although there are way more apearence mods for camaros,oh yea the 00 ws6 was faster in the 1/4mile and 0-60 over the ss,interesting aaaaaaa.

[93REDTRANSAM1985]

there all good-but the lt1 camaro is so sleek and amazing looking

[johntom]

I cant believe this is still going on after soo long

[LiquidFire350]

I cant believe this is still going on after soo long

check the dates, before yesterday it was 2/7/06

[davesLT1]

I believe you could order a camaro, that would smoke any t/a or birdy, it was a special order car called the COPO. It came with the all mighty 427, and it was way under rated at 435 hp, in all actuality it was closer to 500 hp. It was the ultimate sleeper car. 11's no problem, nothing done to it. God i love the speed channel..... Camaros RULE.

[Enthusiast]

A camaro may have never came out of the factory with a 455 but when was the last time you saw a ZL1 Trans Am new or old school. Haha NEVER. Trans Ams are for girly men, might as well go by one of those mustangs.
haha Im prolly going to sell the Z28 and buy a TA here pretty soon,

[davesLT1]

Zl1's were cars that fred gibbs cheverolet in michigan, built specially for drag racing. They had the all aluminum 427. That was the badest camaro ever made. On speed channel, there is a show called muscle car, they did a show on the 427 camaros.

[Grims]

I believe you could order a camaro, that would smoke any t/a or birdy, it was a special order car called the COPO. It came with the all mighty 427, and it was way under rated at 435 hp, in all actuality it was closer to 500 hp. It was the ultimate sleeper car. 11's no problem, nothing done to it. God i love the speed channel..... Camaros RULE.

You mean the Yenko?

[LiquidFire350]

You mean the Yenko?

I thought COPOs and Yenkos were different as in Yenko made the well Yenko, and the COPOs were a special ordering option.

[Transamman25]

LOL .. very true fellas .. But there is something to be said about the SD455 turning mid 12's in the 70's Factory stock on Polyglass Tread .. can your car turn mid 12's today ? :lol: not to mention a big 8:5.1 comp ratio step it up to 10:1 .. see what happens :roflmao:

[Chris 96 WS6]

I thought COPOs and Yenkos were different as in Yenko made the well Yenko, and the COPOs were a special ordering option.

You would be right. The ZL1 was a COPO (Central Office Production Order) car. Yenko was a dealer that modified cars after they were shipped from the plant.

[davesLT1]

The copo car is a special order car from chevy back then. The word copo means central office production order, meaning you could get them through a select few dealerships in those days. The zl1 was a car fred gibb cheverolet came up with strictly for drag racing, you could only get them from fred gibbs, chevrolet dealer only. The yenkos were made by a seperate dealer/ person. Back then you couldnt go to any chevy dealership and get a yenko, i believe the guys name was don yenko, he started the yenko thing not chevy. Guy's i know about the super camaros of the day, those are the cars i dream of. Plus you can learn alot from the speed channel, and barret jackson auctions...

[Chris 96 WS6]

Yeah it was called Yenko Chevrolet, and it is now an import dealership....There were other dealer cars out there such as the Berger Camaro, which GMMG did a 4th gen version of the car as well.

But the ZL1's came from GM with the all aluminum 427s in them. Whether Fred Gibbs came up with it or not, it was a FACTORY built car.

History: http://www.holisticpage.com/camaro/camaros/copo.htm

Perhaps the best know of the racing dealers is Don Yenko, from Cannonsberg, Pennsylvania. Wanting more performance than the 396 Camaro would give, Yenko Sportscars created the Yenko Super Camaro by installing the 427 cid 425 hp engine.


Yenko had been building Corvair Stingers, and some of the early Yenko Camaros had Corvair window stickers with the Camaro information typed in! These cars all had the special Yenko hood scoop and Yenko emblems. Most of these early Yenko Camaros went to Chicago, where they were distributed by Span, Inc. for Yenko Sportscars. There were 54 Camaros built in '67, making this one of the rarest of Camaros. There are only 12 surviving cars known, and 9 of those are being raced or are in very bad condition. The car pictured above belongs to Jim Parks, and is the only know '67 Yenko in showroom condition.

By the end of 1967 it was clear that Yenko couldn't keep up with the demand for 427 Camaros, so he approached Chevrolet about the possibility of getting factory equipped 427 Camaros. Chevy was hesitant about this at first, but the people in the Special Projects Division were eager to give it a shot. According to Jim Mattison, who worked in the division at the time, the result was that Chevy agreed to supply factory equipped 427 Camaros to Yenko in 1968 on the condition that he keep it a secret. Don Yenko agreed, and until recently it was thought that all 68 of the 1968 Yenko Camaros had dealer installed engines, just like the 67's, but they were actually factory installed. At the end of the 68 model year the cars had proved to be both reliable and desireable. This led to the birth of two special options for 1969, COPO 9561 and COPO 9737.

The Central Office Production Order (COPO) was a back door around Chevrolet's performance limits. COPO 9561 was the factory 427 cid Camaro, with either 435hp and solid lifters in the 4-speeds or 425hp and hydraulic lifters in the autos, and COPO 9737 was the Sport Car Conversion Kit, consisting of E70X15 tires on Rally Wheels, a 140 mph speedometer, and a 1 inch front stabilizer bar. The first COPO 9561 cars were delivered to Yenko Chevrolet in January, 1969. Cars built through late May had a Stewart Warner 970 custom service tachometer with a special sending unit installed.

Later cars received the factory tach. Your Yenko could be ordered with or without stripes and spoilers. The stripe package included "SYC" decals on the front headrests.In 1969 the Yenco SYC could be ordered with either the M22 4-speed or the Turbohydramatic transmission for $4245.00, which was a bargain for all that performance! It is not known exactly how many Yenko Camaros were made in 1969. The best figure is either 199 or 201, depending on the source, and probably 201. Interestingly, there is a photo of Don Yenko posing next to a transporter full of Camaros with a handwritten note reading "Our 350th Camaro!" Some people have interpreted this to mean that Yenko sold at least 350 Camaros in 69, but there is no other evidence for this. We could add in the 54 cars from 1967 and the 68 cars from 1968 and that still only equals 323 cars.


Since these cars could be ordered by any dealer there were many more COPO's built for other dealers. The best figures at this time are 193 automatics and 822 4-speeds, for a total of 1015 COPO 9561 cars.

Fred Gibb and the ZL1
Just as DonYenko and Dick Harrell were largely responsible for the COPO 9561 427 Camaros, Fred Gibb was the man behind COPO 9560, the aluminum block ZL1 427 Camaro. There were only 69 ZL1's built, and most went to racers. The cars carried a base price of over $7,200, of which $4160.15 was for the engine!


Originally there were going to be 50 cars built, but other dealers clamored for the car and that ran the total up to 69. These cars were the ultimate factory Camaros, and are very much sought after today. It is ironic that Fred Gibb ended up shipping most of his 50 cars back to the factory to be redistributed to other dealers because he couldn't sell them at the asking price. Some of the cars sat on the lot for 2 years or more before they were finally sold.

Chevrolet toyed with the idea of introducing the ZL1 as a regular producton option, and even built two prototypes with special graphics, but decided against it. There just wasn't a market for a $7,200 Camaro in 1969!