LM7 build up?

[ss.slp.ls1]

If I could pick up an 04 LM7 (intake to oil pan) for ~$400, would that be a desirable engine to mod? I know is a 5.3 liter iron block and heads. Looking for either head/cam swap or supercharger/turbocharger. Thanks for the help.

[ws6_z28]

It could be...its the de-bored version of the LQ4. If you are prepared to put some work in it I would say it is. I don't know your exact plans...back if you did bore it out and setup it up for a power adder you would end up replacing most of the parts....I would think a block only would be more cost effective for such a build-up....

[ss.slp.ls1]

I think I will keep my eyes out for an LQ9 or an LQ4, or even an LT1. I really want an LS1, but I never see them for sale nearby and they are always pricey.

[ws6_z28]

I think I will keep my eyes out for an LQ9 or an LQ4, or even an LT1. I really want an LS1, but I never see them for sale nearby and they are always pricey.

I would agree thats probably your best bet.

[ss.slp.ls1]

$600 for a complete LQ4...worth it?

I went back to the junkyard and discovered that one of the engines that I thought was a LM7 is actually a LQ4. I believe its a 00' and it looks in good shape.

I want to get an engine on a stand and build it up. Is this a good platform?

[ss.slp.ls1]

I picked up the motor today...I verified that its a complete 6.0 liter LQ4 with aluminum 317 heads...all for $500+taxes. I bought an engine stand, waiting on a buddy to borrow a cherry picker to get it off the truck. I'm excited to start the project. :D

[ws6_z28]

I picked up the motor today...I verified that its a complete 6.0 liter LQ4 with aluminum 317 heads...all for $500+taxes. I bought an engine stand, waiting on a buddy to borrow a cherry picker to get it off the truck. I'm excited to start the project. :D

Awesome, it must have not been an 2000 model then....they have cast iron heads. NA or FI build?

[ss.slp.ls1]

It should be somewhere from 01-04, I don't know how to tell exactly which year, if there is a way. I am gonna tear it down and rebuild it, as of now I am leaning toward FI. I know the cr is 9.41:1 so it will respond well to boost. I was planning on picking up a LS6 intake manifold and LS6 cam to swap in the engine.

[SStrokerAce]

Yeah those take a lot of abuse, I did a cam for one that with some fluffed up 5.3 heads on a LQ4 short block, put a single plane and cam in there and it spins 7800rpm! and runs 8.7's in a dragster!

[ss.slp.ls1]

Yeah those take a lot of abuse, I did a cam for one that with some fluffed up 5.3 heads on a LQ4 short block, put a single plane and cam in there and it spins 7800rpm! and runs 8.7's in a dragster!

What's a single plane? 8.7 wow, is the motor NA or FI? I have heard that the 5.3 heads are often used because they have smaller combustion chambers aka more material for porting. How much do the fluffed up heads go for? How much would a custom cam go for, for my application.

I think I will be happy with 500 hp, not sure. I was thinking about a Procharger. Will a hone and stock bottom end be sufficient, or should I go forged? If money was no option, I would go 408 stroker, but thats pricey.

[SStrokerAce]

Single Plane is a "Spider" Manifold if you are a Ford guy, otherwise look up something like a Edelbrock Super Vic, that is a single plane manifold. It's basically so you can run a carb on a LS motor. That Dragster is VERY light so 8.7 is easy in that, still it's impressive to say the least NA!!!!

As for your setup depends on what you want to spend and how fast you want to go....

On a 6.0L LS motor the Dart castings are extremly nice pieces to start from. We just had a set on the dyno we did the "Stage 1" treatment too...

http://www.ls1lt1.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16673

Those heads run $2,400 (the same price as AFR's) and will flat out spank a AFR head. They aren't all pretty like the CNC AFR's but the motor don't care about pretty it cares about HP! Team that up with one of my custom cams ($410) and your not going to need a ProCharger!

We have also done some of the "Stage 1" work to the 317 6.0L heads and they turn out well. 270cfm, but that was for a truck application. I would suggest the Dart heads prepped over fixing the 317's.

The stock truck bottom end will be fine, the LS6 intake is also a good choice.

Bret

[New 97SS]

lq4=forged crank and powdered rods. There are guys getting WAY more power out of a nodular iron (LS1) crank. Get everything cleaned up, buy some comp star rods and piston of your choice. short block done.

As for the top end, call richard at west coast cylinder head, he'll hook you right up.

Good score on that engine, they run great, for a long time.

[ss.slp.ls1]

There is a guy selling a LS1 Hot Cams for cheap, will that go well with an LQ4?

[ss.slp.ls1]

Here's a picture. I am going to be doing a full tear down tomorrow.

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/5341/frontresizedhc3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[SStrokerAce]

There is a guy selling a LS1 Hot Cams for cheap, will that go well with an LQ4?

You still have to change the valve springs on the heads to go with them..... Hot Cams are cheap but in no way anywhere near the most powerfull.

[New 97SS]

You would feel the difference from stock, with the hotcam, but its not a very good cam, overall.

the OP stated H/C, possible FI application. All that = no Hot Cam. Vinci has some awesome "off the shelf" grinds for any of those setups.

All that said, if you are looking for some pep out of the motor, the hotcam is good, and cheap.

What vehicle would this be going in?

[ss.slp.ls1]

Valley Plate:
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/3728/valleyplatege5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Rockers:
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7060/rockersfo3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Pistons:
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2845/pistonstr4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Crankshaft:
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/8637/crankshaftgc8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Cylinders:
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/549/cylindersbottomtm0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Cylinder Wall:
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/6999/cylinderwallnw8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[ss.slp.ls1]

What vehicle would this be going in?

98-02 F-body.

[SStrokerAce]

Are you going to stick with the stock crank or you going to a stroker?

If the cylinder walls looked like that I would have left the stock bottom end in there!

Bret

[ss.slp.ls1]

Are you going to stick with the stock crank or you going to a stroker?

If the cylinder walls looked like that I would have left the stock bottom end in there!

Bret

I think I pulled it all out to force myself to go with a forged bottom end. Not sure if I can afford to stroke it out.

Edit: Should I even bother with a hone?

[ws6_z28]

.....If the cylinder walls looked like that I would have left the stock bottom end in there!

Bret

I was thinking the same thing....

[ss.slp.ls1]

I was thinking the same thing....

Another part was that I wanted my first project to be a complete teardown and rebuild. Also if I want to hit 500+ rwhp, I think it would be safer on a forged bottom end.

EDIT: I really wish I could afford a Lunati 408 stroker kit right now.

[SStrokerAce]

You don't need a forged crank, that's for sure.

Hell honestly you don't need to change the pistons and rods for 500rwhp.

Bret

[ss.slp.ls1]

You don't need a forged crank, that's for sure.

Hell honestly you don't need to change the pistons and rods for 500rwhp.

Bret

So when they say go forged for insurance, are they just referring to pistons? Well I do have everything organized and labeled. Can I just put it all back in in the same place it came out? Maybe just add new bearings and rings, or keep the same ones and reclock the rings? Should I get a hone?

[SStrokerAce]

I wouldn't hone anything without a TQ plate personally, and when I put new rings in a motor I would do a "deglaze" with the hone to freshen up the crosshatch.

If you have a shop that has a TQ plate (a SBF one can work) then putting pistons in it is not a bad idea, it will help with compression for sure since the stock pistons you have are low compression ones and you would need to REALLY mill a set of heads to get them down low enough for decent street compression. (11:1 would be hard to get)

The stock rods are ok, but you can either go with a H-beam or I Beam rod, usually the easiest thing to do is go to a SBC 6.125" rod, the 6.100" rods either have the wrong pin size, or are bress fit for most pistons out there. Just too much BS.

Honestly if you are not going with a blower (which you don't need to get 500rwhp) I would do Eagle 6.125" I beams and a set of Mahle Pro Packs. I have the LS2/6.0L Pro Packs for a decent price (same as Jegs/Summit) if you go that way, and the Eagle Rods. IF you want to upgrade a H-beam is about all I would do. The stock rods are still going to cost you rod bolts, assembly and maybe resizing and for all that BS your paying for the Eagle I beams at that point.

One thing I hate to see is a guy spending a bunch of money on the bottom end and not enough on the top end of the motor. For example buying a $800 forged crank for a 402/408 and then putting POS Patriot or TSP heads on top because that's all they can afford. A 6.0L with good heads will walk all over a 402 with crappy ones.

If it was for my own car I would do:

Stock Crank, Polish the Journals and balance it
Eagle I Beams
Mahle Pro Packs
Bore/Hone the block and have them line hone it with ARP Bolts in the mains.
My Dart 225cc Stage 1 heads
One of my cams (duh)
LS6 Intake
1 7/8ths Headers

That's going to get you where you want to go.

Bret

[ss.slp.ls1]

If it was for my own car I would do:

Stock Crank, Polish the Journals and balance it
Eagle I Beams
Mahle Pro Packs
Bore/Hone the block and have them line hone it with ARP Bolts in the mains.
My Dart 225cc Stage 1 heads
One of my cams (duh)
LS6 Intake
1 7/8ths Headers

That's going to get you where you want to go.

Bret

This is a nice recipe. I just have a couple of questions. Is the stock crank externally or internally balanced? How much bore? When is an upgrade to forged H-beams warranted? Do most shops align hone with arp bolts in the mains? Can you give me a ballpark price for the machine work listed?

If I won't be using the 317's, whats a good asking price for them? Can I even sell the stock cam, pistons, and rods?

Thanks for your help so far. I really appreciate it. :thumbsup:

[SStrokerAce]

Internally balanced cranks on LS motors.

You can stick with a stock bore or go out to 4.030" I would check on the piston availability first though, sometimes Mahle is out of stock on some of them.

On rods you don't even need aftermarket rods IMHO, and when I do 600hp motors I use lightweight rods so I can get some mass out of the crank as well, but that can all get much more expensive.

You have to align hone and hone a block with the gaskets and hardware you plan to use later on. That probably runs $125 or so.

The 317's are worth something on the forums, $200-$300 or so.

Bret

[ss.slp.ls1]

I am gonna stay NA.

Stock crank, polished and balanced.
From what was stated above, I'll keep the stock rods.
Mahle Pro Packs, do I use flat tops?
Hone and align hone the block.
Should I have the cam bearings replaced?
Should I shim the oil pump relief spring?
Factory gapped rings?
Stock sized bearings?

That should cover the shortblock for now, I'm gonna have to do this build in sections.

[SStrokerAce]

Yes, use flat tops... I can look up the PN and price for you on the pistons tomorrow if you want.

I would leave the oil pump alone.

Bret

[ss.slp.ls1]

I read a post about running a LS2 timing set, is that recommended with high output?

A price on the pistons would be good, need to know how long my block will sit before I can afford to assemble the short block. Thanks.

[SStrokerAce]

The pistons, pins and rings are $667+ shipping. They come in either 4.000" or 4.010" bore.

Bret

[ss.slp.ls1]

Thanks for the quote. I'm still in the process of finding a good machine shop. I have a few to check out.